Thoughts on Warrior Tank.

[Ipkonfig]

So I know the majority of people believe we can't tank end game, and fine whatever I have no interest in discussing that. I play what I like so I play a warrior. I was talking with another warrior and we had an interesting thought. Defiance should have a damage reduction component based on % health missing, so the lower your HP gets the less damage you take. It fits with the berserker concept of the class and even the name of the ability "Defiance". I know it doesn't fall into the healing tank category, it could be swapped and be a healing buff based on % health missing. But to me the DMG redux fits better with my image of the class, the more punishment you take the harder you fight back.

[oceanlord]

defiant and wrath system really need a remake, idk how
its just stupid atm

[hola]

defiant and wrath system really need a remake, idk how
its just stupid atm

Blood Presence
Instant
Requires Death Knight
Requires level 57
You assume the presence of Blood, increasing Stamina by 25%, increasing base armor by 55%, and reducing damage taken by 10%. Threat generation is also significantly increased.



Defensive Stance
Instant 1.5 sec cooldown
Requires Warrior
Requires level 9
A tanking combat stance.

Decreases damage taken by 25%.
Significantly increases threat generation.
Generates 1 Rage every 3 sec while in combat.

[Fuuljo]

defiant and wrath system really need a remake, idk how
its just stupid atm

It's not that Wrath is a poor mechanic, it's just that it is too slow to generate. If you could generate a full stack of Wrath with one combo (1 from Swing, 1 from Sunder and 3 from Butcher) it would allow a WAR to use their job skills more liberally and ultimately make up for their lack of standard mitigation by helping to heal away damage twice as often as they can now.

Overpower should really be generating wrath as well, even if it just a chance based on the number of enemies hit. WARs don't need reworking, they just need tweaking.

Also Steel Cyclone's tooltip needs correcting.

[Lemon8or]

How about the lower the HP you are, the higher the additional healing? It'd be even better in my opinion.

[Marxam]

How about the lower the HP you are, the higher the additional healing? It'd be even better in my opinion.

This makes more sense to me. As a war/pld 50 I find myself more often moving to pld since end game requires much more consistent tanking and dmg mitigation. I love axe classes and I hate how it currently is geared towards early game play and sort of gimps out towards endgame. Is still good and I play it but a tweak is definitely needed. Also 25% increase from defiance seems like a lot but when compared to a pld of the same or equal gear you're looking at roughly 1500 hp over a pld which is not a lot. Please increase the buff to 405 or 50%. I though tanks were supposed to have high hp? I would be nice to be the only class with 9999 hp with ilvl 90+ gear of course.

[hola]

This makes more sense to me. As a war/pld 50 I find myself more often moving to pld since end game requires much more consistent tanking and dmg mitigation. I love axe classes and I hate how it currently is geared towards early game play and sort of gimps out towards endgame. Is still good and I play it but a tweak is definitely needed. Also 25% increase from defiance seems like a lot but when compared to a pld of the same or equal gear you're looking at roughly 1500 hp over a pld which is not a lot. Please increase the buff to 405 or 50%. I though tanks were supposed to have high hp? I would be nice to be the only class with 9999 hp with ilvl 90+ gear of course.

i dont use warrior anymore for running CM.

[Marxam]

@hola

My point exactly. I still use war though cause I do love axes. However is it possible to even reach the hp cap with ilvl 90+ with vitality IV materia stacked till it gets dim returns?

[Kenji1134]

Just make the +15% healing bonus passive with Defiance.
Actually, bump that up to a 20% bonus.
That way War has 25% more hp, and gets 20% more healing, so "roughly" equal increase in survivability.
This is compared to PLD who gets 20% mit, hp / 0.8 dmg taken = 1.25x HP, but in essence has a built in 25% "effective" healing mod, as is the nature of mitigation.

So why not make War's 25% as well? Cause PLD is still billed as the "less dps, less aggro, more survivability" tank. So give War a little less survivability, but let them use Wrath to dps and self-heal to their heart's content.

PS. Please dont make this post into yet another argument of War dps/healing vs PLD cooldowns. This is aimed solely at making Defiance more stable and easier to use.

[Kiaris]

Ill be honest, i love my WAR.. my PLD is almost level 47 now..

But why would they ever make the WAR take hits as good as a PLD ?

Now before you rage.. This entire issue is.. Why do people want a WAR for the Coil.. when a PLD can do it better from how the forums read.
If you give the WAR the same survival as the PLD,

Why would you take a PLD now ? All we did was just change the table on what tank is needed. Take the WAR who does much more damage.


There will sadly never be a good balance in the tanks, 1 Does more Damage and Tanks, One Takes less damage and tanks.

You cannot have.
1 takes less Damage and Does more DMG
1 Takes same Damage and Does more DMG
Both does not work.


How do we fix WAR ? To me that can be done. but not the ways suggested so far in increasing armor, etc.

Biggest Change needs to be Inner beast.
Change the Values Have it throw up a shield that does not mess with SCH shield.
Give Defiance a Passive 10%-15% healing Bonus.

To me.. Inner beast is my biggest issue, I take spike damage, whatever. I use inner beast to counter it.. but.. Both Healers just dropped big heals on me causing overhealing and wasted Mana and innerbeast.

I would rather Throw a self shield up before the big hit, or after the hit for healers to have time to fix me up.

so in Reality to me.. (I am not a designer, i am a player.. this may be terrible)

Defiance - +10-15% healing passive
Stacks up to 5x Times
2% Crit Per stack
For Each Stack, Steel Cyclone Gains 50 Potency to a Max of 250 + Emnity Gain at 5 stacks
For Each Stack, Inner Beast gains a 90% of dmg Dealt shield Max of 375% HP Shield based on Damage.

Read Below before comments on these numbers.


Steel Cyclone - Potency based on Wrath Stacks - + Emnity
Inner beast - Shields self, Potency based on Wrath Stacks.
Defiance - Reduce WAR's Damage by 30-35% instead of 25%.


This could be off, but it has potential.

If we want WAR tanking, we have to Do less Damage, Get rid of the healing Aspect from Inner Beast.. Allow us to Inner beast/Steel Cyclone more often as needed would completly change the style of the class.

Paladin still takes Overall Less damage, WAR can now deal with Spike Damage easier.

(Values will most likely need adjusted based on testing)