Endgame Progression, Elitism and You

[AdvancedWind]

Oh man, this never ending discussion again. Why can't people understand that

A - It's extremely rare for people to actually demand some examples people keep throwing around in these threads (like full DL on AK). So, stop throwing bs examples like these and complain about how the whole community is "shit" or w/e. Very few, if any people, are requiring gear to this level for AK or Ifrit. Most people won't care about your gear for Garuda if you just have a company weapon. Most people will let you in Titan if you have Ifrit weapon and ilv 55~ish gear on other slots. That's far from "elitism", that's asking for the minimum.

Also, when they do ask for "ridiculous" gear (Saw a guy asking for relic weapons on Castrum Meridianum yesterday) , they generally have an specific reason for doing so (speed runs most likely). Don't like it? Ignore the guy instead of crying over forums. Most people are actually reasonable when they ask for gear.

B - While skill can certainly make difference and allow you to use weaker gear, it should be noted that some things ARE gear checks that the majority of the playerbase will NOT overcome without proper gear. Also, when pugging, the first thing that can be seen is your gear. Should I trust a random guy saying he can totally kill Garuda adds before they one hit KO us when he's using a white weapon, or should I just invite the other guy right besides him that has the Ifrit weapon? If I random queue on AK as healer and the 2 DPSs aren't even in AF gear, what should I think? "Whoa, these guys are so good they can kill the Demon Wall before it evens spawns bees with their broken lv 40 weapon!" or "........baack to queue it is!"?

And that's ignoring actual DPS checks that no skill can overcome, like Titan heart, for example. It doesn't matter how good the team is, you won't break heart if half your team is in il55< gear except maybe the top 0,5% of the playerbase that can do it on swimsuits. Newsflash: You're not the top 0,5%, neither am I, so please get the gear required for the content.

[Tricksy]

Doing lower level/reward content for gear is a necessity. It is the way the game was designed. If we are polite in pointing out that some fights have gear checks, in the way of unavoidable moves etc, then we are being as respectable and honest as is necessary. Fact is, it would be more fun for those two to have done Wandering Palace together than to have attempted the primal. That is an idea the two could have come up with.

[Fyrebrand]

Thanks for the post, OP! It was a good read. I've really been taking my time with the game and I'm nowhere near 50 yet, so thankfully I've been spared the horrors of endgame DF drama so far. Still, when I do get there it will be much appreciated to have some kind of progression guide so I know what is realistic for my gear level. I really think that some form of item level restrictions on some of the dungeons, at least as far as Duty Finder is concerned, is a smart thing to do. Insisting that there is a hardwired need for better gear at any stage of the game is difficult, when the system itself doesn't enforce -- or even suggest -- such recommendations. Nevertheless, I'm sure the gear requirements are still there to some extent, even if they are currently hidden.

Also, thanks so much for not being this guy. As I said in that train wreck of a thread, there is a right way to broach certain topics, and a wrong way. The right way is to be clear and calm, while offering advice or criticism in a constructive way. The wrong way is to just shoot people down, point fingers, and go on the offensive.

Please pay no mind to the handful of trolls who only came in to spit a snappy one-liner. They obviously decided what your post was about from the title, and didn't bother to read anything else beyond that.

[Wisekuma]

snip

Thanks for the write up OP!

[Kalam]

I don't see anything wrong with the post itself, I'd rather be over geared and prepared for fights versus possibly holding up progress.

[Aenarion]

Fix a not intended strategy. Aka exploit the AI of the enemy. I call it exploit, you can keep calling yourself smart.

Another one who can't seem to grasp how exploits are defined, not that I'm surprised, there tends to be a lot of these in themepark MMOs.

Don't cry if you're reported ingame and (when GM service will wake up a bit doing their work) banned for cheating/exploiting the content

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

At least i'm happy a couple guys i met doing the old exploit skipping are now banned.

If they got banned, they were doing something naughty on the side, it certainly wasn't the speed runs that got them banned.

I play the content as intented, not trying to find any possible way to cheat the content. Attitude, you know?

What you're trying to label "cheat", is called "emergent" game play in other MMO like Eve, where the devs create the tools and see what the players do with them, many times in totally unintended ways that the devs never even thought of, many of which even the devs think is awesome.

Often times what differentiates smart use of mechanics and exploit depends on the impact it has on the game, something you can't seem to grasp. Speed runs in ARR is no more of an "exploit" than jetcan mining in Eve, except SE unsurprisingly decided that speed runs runs counter to their plan - stretching out content as much as possible, while CCP loved the jetcan idea and the extra dynamics it brought to the game.

[Craniux]

im one of the ppl that says u can beat garuda with ppl who know the fight well...with ifrit wep, af gear, and dk accesories...thats it

[XyleHarkyn]

I'm going to make some slight alterations to the guide for readability and a couple of minor changes. Really appreciate the feedback guys!

[Zanther]

I'm just curious on how killing mobs as fast as you can, skipping some by running around them, and skipping all cut scenes is considered an exploit....

Are the mobs bugged or something? Are people taking advantage of a bug that's causing unintended things to happen?

[Vanidin]

I'm just curious on how killing mobs as fast as you can, skipping some by running around them, and skipping all cut scenes is considered an exploit....

Are the mobs bugged or something? Are people taking advantage of a bug that's causing unintended things to happen?

The mobs aren't bugged, it's not an exploit. If anything it's bad dungeon design by SE that you can simply skip by things. There are no glitched npc's involved or anything of that nature. It's simply avoiding things that the game doesn't require you to fight by running around them.


Concerning OP:

I don't think this is elitism at all, he asked how his FC mate is geared. For all he knows the guy hasn't even finished his af quests and is using a lvl 30 white weapon. Heck I've ran into people in ifrit and garuda wearing crafting jewelery, 40ish white weapons, tanks without completed af that were wearing lvl 40ish crafted armor, I even saw a white mage that was using a lvl 20 aetherial weapon. Granted I've had plenty of runs with normally geared people as well... but I can completely understand him wanting to make sure his FC mate had at least finished af and had a relatively recent weapon and jewelery.