FATES need a nerf

[Tolmos]

I just don't get it. Every game, every forum there are 100 posts that boil down to "nerf this because its not how I like to play".

And yet, all those people who are level 50 and saying that, you never really saw them saying that BEFORE 50, huh? But the second they don't need FATEs anymore... Funny how that works.

[HFX7686]

You know, you don't actually have to participate in FATEs if you don't want to.

[Moontide]

General argument: "You don't actually have to participate in FATEs if you don't want to."
This is unfair towards those who enjoy other forms of leveling up. Since FATEs are the single most powerful and easy way to level up, efforts for other, more challenging and to some more fun ways to level up will not be rewarded enough in comparison.

General argument: "Then why not just buff everything else up?"
1) This would still keep large crowd FATEs Whack-a-Mole competitions with no proper class roles and no challenge beyond said competition for XP.
2) Nerfing one thing is easier than buffing five.
3) Turn-in FATEs would remain abused.
4) (Opinion/personal) Too fast level-up speed will drain the contents of the game dry too fast. Not good for long-term commitment and renewing subscriptions.

[ChickensEvil]

snip

I think what you are missing is that making something take longer doesn't actually INCREASE content... you are just dragging out the SAME content. How is killing a mob 1 time better/worse than killing a mob 10 times? Did the mob CHANGE between the first time I killed it and the 10th time? I would argue that it did change... for the worse, because it got easier and easier to kill to the point where it just got boring. I don't mind doing something multiple times, but this is why I also have issue with the darklight gearing system. To get a full set of darklight gear I have to complete AK at LEAST 65 times. How in the world does that sound "fun" to you?


Since your Conjurer is only 32, you still do not have a max level character and cannot speak at all toward FATE grinding being "too fast". Why? because you cannot FATE grind to 50 and then call it a day on your first character. YOU HAVE to at least do all the story quests (even if you skip all the side quests) which is going to take time, and force you to run around the world. While you are running to the various zones anyway, you might as well do the side quests since it is actually a faster way to level WHILE completing the story. Being 32, you haven't even hit the worst of it yet, since you will be going on tons and tons more go to this zone, then go to this zone, then backtrack here, backtrack there, backtrack, backtrack everywhere!

And you HAVE to clear through the story to even unlock the HM primals, which you have to do to unlock the raid. So everyone that is "quickly" pushing to the endgame and "clearing content too fast", did all the same story quests you are doing right now, all the mandatory dungeons (there at like 8 of the 11 or so that are mandatory), did the three normal primal fights, and then grinding AK 65 times to get into BCoB. So how are they already doing at this, because it is certainly not a "fast" process. They are playing hours and hours on end, for days and weeks on end.

Bottom line, those who are primarily FATE grinding are leveling their 2nd and 3rd job to max level. That has NO effect on game content, since you only NEED one job to do the content. So all your points about why it should be nerfed are moot, since it comes from the basis of slowing down the leveling process of your FIRST job. Now if you want that to be slower I think I would rather shoot myself in the head... the story quest itself already has you doing tons of pointless stuff just to drag it out as it is... to the point where they are making fun of themselves in the process (the part of the story out at wineport in the 30s comes to mind...)

[HFX7686]

General argument: "You don't actually have to participate in FATEs if you don't want to."
This is unfair towards those who enjoy other forms of leveling up. Since FATEs are the single most powerful and easy way to level up, efforts for other, more challenging and to some more fun ways to level up will not be rewarded enough in comparison.

No, you can still do the other, more challenging, and fun ways of leveling up if you want to. Absolutely no one is forcing you to level to 50 as fast as possible.

There's no race to level 50 (and if there was, you've already lost). They're not going to shut the game down before you make it. If you want to take your time and do that other content then go ahead and do it.

[pandabearcat]

Moontide, I don't think you understand that there are no other viable options for leveling up.

I don't mean to say you don't know what you're talking about, but you don't know what you're talking about. And that isn't me being rude, its me trying to get you to understand what its like post storyline.

When you run out of storyline, everything else is just completely cut off from you. It is like playing a whole new game, because suddenly after you already have gotten what you wanted out of that level (hunting log, maybe 1 or 2 leves, maybe a dungeon), you are still 50-80% of the way from leveling.

And then what do you do? What do you propose everyone do? Force them to run a dungeon that they don't want to? Make FATE grinding a complete chore (lets say 1/2 the xp), so that it takes twice as long...for no benefit?

Like other people said, I don't buy the argument it makes other forms unfair. If you do other forms for the point of gaining xp, -you- are the one making a conscious choice to give up xp, for more enjoyment and/or ease, or social aspect, or cutscenes, or what have you.

tl;dr: You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot just have whatever it is you want to do be the best xp, simply because you do not enjoy what is currently the most xp, as xp innately has no value other than...level, and if you consume other content then it is your choice to, and you shouldn't feel bad that you're gaining less xp.

Wow that was a long and terrible summary, but this is what I mean.

Please, I beg you to get a character to 50, then renew your crusade against FATEs. Until then, you have no idea what its like.

[Moontide]

Moontide, I don't think you understand that there are no other viable options for leveling up.(Snip)

(stuff about how hard it is to do it with second class)

You are both attacking my personal preference without touching the fact that it's an easy and unchallenging bit where only the speed of tagging monsters counts.
For the leveling speed opinion: I do understand about the scarcity of the content. I've played MMOs back when it wasn't necessarily a smooth quest ride from the bottom to the top. Pausing to look for options about things to do is when I've found the most fun during MMOs though. Having to look at your options instead of "Do this one thing only" makes the virtual world feel more like... well, a virtual world.

The main issue is the brainlessness, exploitation, class unbalance, gear irrelevance and easiness, not the exact XP value. Those are the things that need to change regardless of my own preference about leveling speed.

[Tolmos]

I've played MMOs back when it wasn't necessarily a smooth quest ride from the bottom to the top. Pausing to look for options about things to do is when I've found the most fun during MMOs though. Having to look at your options instead of "Do this one thing only" makes the virtual world feel more like... well, a virtual world.

Ok, let's consider our options for leveling a second/third/fourth class atm:

Mindlessly grind mobs alone
Mindlessly grind mobs in groups
Mindlessly grind low level dungeons
Mindlessly grind fates

Yep, you're right- that was loads of fun!

It sounds to me like you have nostalgia goggles on. I've been MMOing since Ultima came out in '97, and I can assure you that I remember just how crappy mob grinding was in Everquest, XI and Aion. FATEs are just fine as they are. Dungeons need a boost to put them on par with FATEs (which would make them the superior options, since they also offer money and items). Neither needs a nerf.

[Moontide]

(tl,dr: Dungeons need boost FATE should stay as it is.)

You can't deny about FATEs not being the most mindless out of the options provided at the moment though. They teach very little about your class. And you missed battleleves completely from the options. Those need a huge boost from what they are now. Something tells me that they were supposed to be the thing to grind or at least use until you don't dare to spend your levies anymore once you're out of normal quests.

My personal pet peeve with FATEs is still the fact that in larger groups people get huge rewards for very little effort. Call that me wanting a difficulty buff / effort nerf at least if you want.

And I still stand with my slower leveling speed preference. You're free to disagree of course.

[pandabearcat]

Except all your arguments (from your last post, especially) argue about the xp gain.

I'm sure we would ALL like to have interesting, perfectly balanced, engaging, and quick/rewarding content.

The fact that none exists outside of the storyline quest is a problem.

But as we have reiterated time and again, nerfing fates is not the answer to this problem. If you have an actual solution that

1. makes dungeons more appealing
2. makes player "skill" more relevent
3. makes my goddamn dps queue not so long

I would gladly hear it.