Slaying Primals *Slight Spoilers*

[ZenBear]

How do normal people do it?

Characters talk about how Primals are summoned pretty regularly, and are summarily put down by... somebody. But seeing as how they can just insta-win any fight by converting their opponents into slavish cultists, how does anybody without the Echo defeat a Primal? For that matter, how did the Titan Slayers do it? They never (afaik) mention that any of them have the big E, so does Titan just not bother converting?

In the story you (apparently) always face the Primals alone, though in-game you have a party of 4 (8 in HM) that just appear/disappear between cutscenes. Do these people actually exist? Is it supposed to be possible for a single adventurer to slay a Primal?

Also, I assume in Lore the Primals actually leave their summoning circles from time to time to wreak some havoc on Eorzea, though this never happens in-game.

I'm just curious about any Lore that explains how the Primal threat is managed in FFXIV, as I intend to use them in a fanfic.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

[Dijana]

Well, I imagine there's always the threat of being tempered- SPOILER HERE FOR SMN QUESTS do not read on if you dont want to see






In the smn quests, you fight someone who previously defeated ifrit, and you find out his brother was tempered during the battle, so when it comes to facing primals, I imagine you dont NEED the echo to do it, it just takes out a big part of the difficulty.

[Vydos]

And I also guess that it depends on the primal itself. They all have their different and own personalities. Ifrit doesn't seem to have issues in enslaving the races of eorzea. Garuda seems to rather prefer wiping and killing them. Then again she is a crazy bitch. Titan seems to prefer killing them as well. He looks like the type who seems quite pleased with his kobold army. It even looks like he protects them dearly.

[Shuon]

there are some truths to what vydos had said. primals 'enslave' worshippers to sustain their existence from worships.

if you read the official page, it mentions that Titan is actually gentle and benevolent, which is evident in-game seeing how he was fighting the player cuz LL broke the pact with the kolbolds and threatened their safety. Titan didn't seem like the 'outgoing' type who actively tries to enslave more worshippers, as opposed to the more prideful Ifrit and the outright violent Garuda, who would do anything to gain more power.

[Enkidoh]

Primals however are pretty much stated as being evil, period. Even the moogle Primal (Good King Moggle Mog the XII) was shown to be a bloodthirsty monster who corrupted his moogle followers.Bascially, Primals corrupt not only those who summon them, but also anyone who happens to come into contact with them, ala, the tempering of members of the five races into mindless thralls of the beastmen (in 1.0 this was specifically mentioned as being the reason why the beast tribes, specifically, the Ixal and amalj'aa, turned aggressive, if not downright violent, almost apparently overnight - they started summoning Garuda and Ifrit respectively - due to being shown how to summon by the Ascians/Paragons.)

In fact, in 1.0 the negative influence summoning Primals had on the other beast tribes scared the sylphs so much they vowed not to summon their Primal, at least, until the Calamity caused a political schism in sylvan society, which by the time of ARR, those who stuck to the 'no summoning' policy were forced out of their homeland of Moonspore Grove, with those who did summon Ramuh turning noticeably purple as a result.

Not to mention the Primals' very existence actually direct threatens the planet itself - to materialize in the material realm they need to consume an enormous quantity of aether, and are effectively aetheric leeches - this was in fact the very reason Bahamut had been sealed away in Dalamud in the first place, he was such a danger to Hydaelyn's existence due to the amount of aether he consumes that the Allag Empire thought the best option was to sent him literally off world into outer space just to stop him from completely consuming Hydaelyn's aether.

Either way, despite the best of attentions, it is plainly obvious by what was stated in 1.0 and in ARR that Primals are evil period and are a danger to the very planet itself.

[lord_naarghul]

Either way, despite the best of attentions, it is plainly obvious by what was stated in 1.0 and in ARR that Primals are evil period and are a danger to the very planet itself.

Except the Sylph elder points out that Ramuh actually isn't evil, merely overprotective. And I get the distinct impression that Ramuh isn't interested in anything beyond that part of the Shroud.

It will depend on our interaction with Ramuh exactly what he is like in the future. It would interest me greatly if Ramuh becomes an ally and answers questions based on the nature of primals and eliminates some of the mysteries surrounding them. That would be consistent with his other Final Fantasy appearances.

I wil note that my opinion is colored by the fact that Ramuh is one of my favorite summons in the series.

[ZenBear]

Thanks everyone for the excellent information! This has all helped a great deal, and I feel a bit more confident with where I can take my story.

You guys are the best!

[NoloeTazier]

The 1.0 Company of Heroes storyline might have explained it better as to how they were able to fight and defeat Titan and Leviathan. There's one CS which can be found around....anyways. It's never stated that the Company of Heroes didn't have the Echo, but if they didn't that's what makes the fights even more amazing. But this picture might explain how they were able to combat the Temperings.



2 Magic staves. Though I will say, we didn't meet any of those 3 NPCs in the Company of Heroes storyline (so far) so they may not even be apart of the group. But I'd assume they were, as SE kept it known that the Company of Heroes were the only ones to defeat Titan and Leviathan WELL before we even appeared in Eorzea to gain the Echo and combat Primals.

[Enkidoh]

Well, remember it's stated that defeating a Primal doesn't mean it's dead, as they're immortal beings that can simply be resummoned from the aether again and again, only limited by the supply of crystals (the same crystals players use in crafting) required in the summoning process (this is stated on the main FFXIV website and also it's what Thancred mentions after Ifrit was defeated, although given the fact he's revealed to not be the most trustworthy person I wouldn't exactly take anything he says as gospel so to speak).

Hence I seriously doubt that the original defeat of Titan and Leviathan meant that was the end of them - most likely the kobolds and sahagin just lacked a crystal supply to resummon their respective Primals, until now. Or at least, that's how it seems to me.

Also as far as the mysterious 'Company of Heroes', whose to say they didn't have the Echo as well? After all, in 1.0 Minfilia clearly stated that the amount of cases of people awakening to the Echo was rapidly increasing (that is, around the time of 1.0's storyline), which she took as an ominous sign, and also that a significant amount of the Path of the Twelve's members were adventurers like the player. Of course there is no evidence to suggest they do have the Echo, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

[Enkidoh]

Doubtful, because he is still a Primal - albeit one who tends to be insular and only shows venom if his specific area is intruded upon. But the fact is, Ramuh is still evil - the sylphs in 1.0 were flat out terrified of summoning him because they knew what would happen to them if they did so (they even sternly warned the player about ever summoning a Primal themselves as well), they would be corrupted to his influence, as shown per these exchanges from 1.0 (yes I know some of the dialogue is now slightly out of date due to the Calamity, but the basic idea is still relevant):

Flaxio: "These ones thought of fighting. These ones thought of many things, but the price... the price is too great."
Almixo: "These ones will not summon the Primal."
Zoxio: "The Primal reaps more pain than good. That One is best left undisturbed."
Path Companion: "The Primal... yes..."
Path Companion: "If the sylphs had summoned their god, the Empire would already be preparing to exact their revenge on all of Eorzea. Thank the gods they didn't."
Diluxio: "Metal ones are the lesser evil. It is the Primals who darken hearts. Primals who poison minds! See the feathered ones! See the scaled ones! All are changed!"
Path Companion: "I have not noticed any great change in the behaviour of the other beast tribes. They seem familiarly bestial, though a touch more highly strung perhaps."
Diluxio: "Woken ones have eyes but cannot see! Woken ones refuse to see! Woken ones are blind!"

and

Shanga Meshanga: "Perhaps you've heard of the Primals, or as the Empire has branded them, 'eikons'?"
Path Companion: "But of course. Just as we have the Twelve, the beast tribes have their own deities to whom they offer their worship."
Troxia: "It was discovered that the Primal ones require crystals to maintain a foothold in the corporeal realm. This has made the tribal ones less willing to part with the items. Less willing to trade."
Shanga Meshanga: "And to make matters worse, we've seen a marked change in their behaviour. The tribes have grown more aggressive and violent."

and

Zoxio: "The Primal ones have corrupted the feathered ones and the scaled ones! Poisoned their hearts! Clouded their minds!"
Path Companion: "Have the eikons truly the power to move the hearts of so many?"
Nananoby: "You had best not speak that name around the beast tribes, lest you incur their wrath. 'Eikon' is a derogatory term used by the Garleans to reflect their belief that the Primals are not true gods but mere beasts the ignorant tribes mistakenly worship."
Path Companion: "I would find it rather easier to believe these tales of wonderous deities summoned from beyond the aether if anyone had actually seen one."
Almxio: "Woken ones are blind! Woken ones still sleep! The Primal ones live not beyond the aether, but amongst the aether! The Primal ones are here! The Primal ones rule!"

and

Path Companion: "So, while we were being subjected to ritualistic humiliation, you.. you were watching?! Well I do hope you were listening too because there is something I want to know. Is there any truth to Ifrit's suggestion that we can summon our own Primal?"
Almxio: "The woken one asks a difficult question. The answer, this one knows not."
Zoxio: "Nor this one unfortuitously."
Zoxio: "But even if the woken one could summon a Primal, this one would advise against such folly."
Almxio: "Those ones who violate the barrier betwixt corporeal and aetherial are transformed. Minds are clouded! Hearts are hardened! Souls are darkened!"
Path Companion: "Your sudden concern for our well being is very moving. That said, we have seen Ifrit's influence for ourselves... Even if this power is ours to manipulate, it is perhaps a taboo best left unchallenged."

Naturally this embargo on summoning Ramuh was broken sometime after the Calamity, leading to the split in sylvan society, where a group of sylphs succeeded in Ramuh's summoning, corrupting those who summoned him and turning them a noticible shade of purple and forcing the rest out of Moonspore Grove to a sanctuary in Little Solace. Yes he might not be dangerous if people stay out of the Sylphlands, but the fact is, the sylphs regarded Ramuh as a terrifying entity and were downright petrified of him. After all, if he was such the benevolent figure he was made out to be, wouldn't the rest of the sylphs regarded him with open arms too?