Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[CurlyBruce]

Following up - I wonder if the DK debuff stacks with Virus.
That would make a 25% magic damage reduction.

They do stack, because they are separate debuffs. Although it wouldn't actually qualify to -25% magic damage since INT is only one portion of the magic damage equation so depending on how much INT the boss has it could be only a 15% reduction or as high as 30%.

[Rochetm]

Thing is ID is such a small boost in the first place. It would have to be some extreme DPS race with careless TP for me to consider using it. A ~1% DPS increase is just not worth that kind of TP hit, IMO.

I also find the "just have bard give you TP" argument pretty bad... So I get to do a tiny bit of extra damage so that a bard can nerf his damage and give me my TP back? That doesn't sound all that useful. I would much rather that bard be using his MP on the healers.

[pandabearcat]

Hello all.

Could you please look over this sim parse using (what I believe) to be optimal rotation?

Note this is with ID/FR: without, you use ~1500 less TP over 10 minutes, which is significant.

But this is pure (max) pps sim with no cap on TP.

Please let me know if something is simming completely wrong, or if the rotation is completely wrong.

Thank you.

[0]	: PB - Perfect Balance - Boss - 
[122]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (189)
[244]	: BFB - Blood for Blood - Boss - 
[367]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (242.68)
[483]	: IR - Internal Release (traited) - Boss - 
[599]	: DEMO - Demolish - Boss - 
[709]	: HF - Howling Fist - Boss -  (259.18)
[819]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (228.69)
[923]	: PEAK - Steel Peak - Boss -  (251.56)
[1000]	: PB_END - PB Ends - Boss - 
[1027]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (377.34!)
[1235]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (234.79)
[1443]	: TOD - Touch of Death - Boss - 
[1651]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (301.87)
[1859]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (377.34!)
[1983]	: IR_END - IR (traited) Ends - Boss - 
[2067]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (234.79)
[2244]	: BFB_END - BFB Ends - Boss - 
[2275]	: FR - Fracture - Boss -  (139.76)
[2399]	: DEMO_END - Demolish Ends - Boss - 
[2483]	: DEMO - Demolish - Boss - 
[2691]	: ID - Impulse Drive - Boss -  (251.56)
[2899]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (209.63)
[3107]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (195.66)
[3315]	: ID - Impulse Drive - Boss -  (251.56)
[3523]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (251.56)
[3731]	: ID - Impulse Drive - Boss -  (251.56)
[3939]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (209.63)
[4075]	: FR_END - Fracture - Boss - 
[4147]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (195.66)
[4283]	: DEMO_END - Demolish Ends - Boss - 
[4355]	: DEMO - Demolish - Boss - 
[4443]	: TOD_END - Touch of Death Ends - Boss - 
[4563]	: TOD - Touch of Death - Boss - 
[4771]	: FR - Fracture - Boss -  (139.76)
[4923]	: PEAK - Steel Peak - Boss -  (209.63)
[4979]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (209.63)
[5187]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (195.66)
[5291]	: INVIG - Invigorate - Boss - 
[5395]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (251.56)
[5603]	: ID - Impulse Drive - Boss -  (251.56)
[5811]	: ID - Impulse Drive - Boss -  (251.56)
[6019]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (209.63)
[6155]	: DEMO_END - Demolish Ends - Boss - 
[6227]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (195.66)
[6435]	: DEMO - Demolish - Boss - 
[6571]	: FR_END - Fracture - Boss - 
[6643]	: FR - Fracture - Boss -  (139.76)
[6747]	: HF - Howling Fist - Boss -  (237.58)
[6851]	: ID - Impulse Drive - Boss -  (251.56)
[7059]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (314.45!)
[7267]	: TWIN - Twin Snakes - Boss -  (195.66)
[7475]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (251.56)

...

Total Potency: 119281.35
TP Used: 16050
Ending TP Balance: -3050

[ChaozK]

snip

This might be an obvious question but is this sim taking the Dmg and Speed buff of Greased Lightning into consideration? I also see no bootshine or true strike.

I realize that this is a potency per second sim but bootshines damage for example is higher than snap punch due to the guaranteed crit. That raises the question if a pps sim is a good way to determine MNK strength to begin with.

[pandabearcat]

This might be an obvious question but is this sim taking the Dmg and Speed buff of Greased Lightning into consideration? I also see no bootshine or true strike.

I realize that this is a potency per second sim but bootshines damage for example is higher than snap punch due to the guaranteed crit. That raises the question if a pps sim is a good way to determine MNK strength to begin with.

Hi! PPS scales linearly with gear from stats, so it is a good representation of actual DPS.

And yes, if you go down the sim you'll notice that attacks get faster (from ~2.45 sec GCD to 2.08 sec GCD), so GL is being accounted for.

The reason there are no BS - Bootshines is because ID does more damage, and from a damage perspective the priority list would rather ID more often rather than TRUE or BS for damage.

If I turn off ID/FR, then it will go back into more BS's.

It will never do TRUE because it doesn't have a sub 2.0 GCD.

EDIT:

a good example of this are these two lines:

[1651]	: SP - Snap Punch - Boss -  (301.87)
[1859]	: DK - Dragon Kick - Boss -  (377.34!)

You'll notice the timestamps are 1859-1651 = 208 (2.08 sec) apart, different from the base GCD of 2.45 seconds (sorry I guess I should've pasted base numbers).

Snap punch also has a potency of 301.87, which is 180 * 1.21 (GL3) * 1.1 (DK) * 1.1 (Twin) * 1.2 (BfB) * 1.05 (fists of fire) = ...332.06...crap

Hrm! You might be onto something here. I don't think DK had expired by then so imma go check to see why its not picking up either twin or DK for damage.


EDIT2: hahaha, I suck, I never once accounted for twin strikes >.<

EDIT3: the damage has been fixed =) but for now, please check the above for rotational errors or other damage problems, thanks!

[Xal]

sorry but im not weak : /

[Allyrion]

The reason there are no BS - Bootshines is because ID does more damage, and from a damage perspective the priority list would rather ID more often rather than TRUE or BS for damage.

Why is that the case? Like Chaoz said, Bootshine hits harder on average than Snap Punch which has the same potency as ID. So ID should be less damage every time it doesn't crit?
Is there a problem with making Bootshine always crit in the sim or something?

[pandabearcat]

Why is that the case? Like Chaoz said, Bootshine hits harder on average than Snap Punch which has the same potency as ID. So ID should be less damage every time it doesn't crit?
Is there a problem with making Bootshine always crit in the sim or something?

No, remember the sim only calculates actual game rules. EDIT: to clarify, the sim does autocrit on bs. However in the current ID/FR rotation, both ID and FR hit harder than BS with 11% crit or higher, which is why the priority list (which I wrote, which has no guarantee of being optimal btw, so thanks for the feedback XD) doesn't do it.

I can probably change it to BS more (it will still never Truestrike, even at sub 2.0 speeds True is not worth it unless you have TP issues).

It couldn't care less what you do, as long as what you try to do is legal. For example, you could spam bootshine all day, or ID, or whatever (currently TP is set to infinite, so there isn't even a TP check in place, for more acurate "max" dps sims).

Where are you getting that Bootshine does more damage than SP on average?

Bootshine is (ignoring all modifiers since everything is affected by such modifiers), 130*1.5 = 190 potency.

SP is 180*(1+crit/2) solving for crit, we get that you need roughly 11% crit to be higher damage than BS.

I'm fairly certain almost everyone has at least 11% crit (I could be wrong here, actually! It depends on what crit number I feed into the sim, currently, baseline is 12%), and especially under IR, both SP and ID do more damage than BS.

[EasymodeX]

Umm, the discussion is not focusing on the correct comparisons.

Impulse Drive is an independent ability. You can use it whenever you want to.

Bootshine is dependent on a full 3-step cycle of attacks (Twin - SP - BS for a default sequence).

In order to assess whether or not ID is a local DPS increase, you compare ID agaulst the full Twin-SP-BS combo, not BS itself. Autocrit Bootshine does not exist without Twin-SP.

ID is, for the purposes of this comparison, 180/gcd * (1 + .12*.5) = 190.8 p/g.

TW-SP-BS = (140*1.06 + 180*1.06 + 130 * 1.5)/3 = 178.07.

So ID is more potency per gcd than TW-SP-BS at 12% crit. So ID is spammed in this local scenario with unlimited TP without considering the timing of things external to the BS-TW-SP cycle (such as getting your next DK up, maintaining GL3, better uptime on TOD, Fracture, or Demolish, or maintaining TW itself across long cycles).

[Allyrion]

Snip

I don't mind taking your word for it but I did some napkin math that says you need more than 12% crit or so.
I calculated for 20% as well.

Bootshine = 195 potency
Snap punch/ID = 180 potency, 270 when crit

I just multiplied the potency of BS by 1000.

Which is 195000 potency (it's 195 btw, not 190).

For SP/ID at 20%
it's 180 x 800 = 144000
+ (270 x 200) = 198000 potency

For 12%
It's 180 x 880 = 158400
+ (270 x 120) = 190800 potency which is lower.

With IR, monks are closer to 20% or over 20% crit anyway, so you might be right either way.
I would think that Bootshine might edge out while not under the effect of IR though. Not sure.

I didn't do any more calculations but looking at the potency differences above, I'm thinking it's closer to 17% or 18% baseline crit that would overtake BS.
Of course, you should still ID whenever IR is up (in the sim).
I'm not sure if we have that much crit without IR.