Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[neoreturn]

Cynric, when you say MNK can solo silence ADS. You need give evidence. MNK can't solo silence ADS boss in T2. When you say MNK has decent aoe, you need know what you talking about. MNK can aoe but that's not 'decent'. MNK single target DPS isn't bad for a long run. Again MNK can't bring much value to team, MNK is the hardest dps job to find group. Do you see any group shout for lf a mnk? War definitely is worest overall at moment. Back to 2 month ago, some uber war argue their job design isn't bad and they tank such such in coil. We are talking about an overall feeling not individual who can do an unbelievable job.

[NoctisUmbra]

Cynric, when you say MNK can solo silence ADS. You need give evidence. MNK can't solo silence ADS boss in T2. When you say MNK has decent aoe, you need know what you talking about. MNK can aoe but that's not 'decent'. MNK single target DPS isn't bad for a long run. Again MNK can't bring much value to team, MNK is the hardest dps job to find group. Do you see any group shout for lf a mnk? War definitely is worest overall at moment. Back to 2 month ago, some uber war argue their job design isn't bad and they tank such such in coil.

MNKs may have trouble finding groups in PUGs because PUGs tend to be filled with dimwits who can't even clear content and wouldn't know good dps if it hit them in the face. Not all PUGs, don't get me wrong... but we are talking about pick ups here so you're gonna get a lot of bad with some good.

Looking at PUGs is not a good way to judge a job's effectiveness. Already went through this. Too many people suck with MNK because they don't have enough execution to maintain their GL3 stacks, dots, buffs, etc. However, effective endgame companies will almost entirely acknowledge the ability of MNK as a job.

You can, in fact, solo interrupt ADS with it. It is a very ineffective use of MNK, but quite possible because Arm of the Destroyer, MNK's Silence skill, is on GCD and furthermore it is an Opo-Opo stance skill and therefore always available every ~2s (under GL3 ). Some companies actually ran with that method on ADS first before switching to BRDs/PLDs.

MNK has decent AoE. Its not great, but don't even try to underestimate Rockbreaker. You hit 2 targets with Rockbreaker and your total damage is already greater than what Snap Punch would have done on a single target. Furthermore Rockbreaker hits many targets in a conal AoE situation. Have you run Coil Turn 4 on MNK? I have. I used Rockbreaker. MNK has decent AoE.

A good MNK will bring top DPS to a team. They will also bring Mantra. You point a good MNK player at a target, and you can expect it to die incredibly fast.

Why don't people shout for MNKs? Because that is a very quick way to have a shitty MNK join your party. There are a lot of bad MNK players, because they job isn't as easy to play as BRD, which is the most popular. People don't shout for BRDs because it's a better performing job. People shout for BRDs because it is the easiest and safest DPS job and they have a greater chance of getting someone with decent performance. Shouting for a random MNK means you can get someone with amazing DPS, but you can also get someone who just outright does horrible damage. I have done PUG runs of Prae on MNK with other MNKs in party and there have been times i parsed more than double the damage of another MNK.

Do NOT make the mistake of confusing popularity for what is good and what is bad. If you're going to look at popularity, do NOT make the mistake of looking only at PUGs and shouts, and actually research what the top FCs are doing at endgame. BG just cleared Twintania a couple of days ago. They have a MNK in their party.

[Onyxys]

Why don't people shout for MNKs? Because that is a very quick way to have a shitty MNK join your party. There are a lot of bad MNK players, because they job isn't as easy to play as BRD, which is the most popular. People don't shout for BRDs because it's a better performing job. People shout for BRDs because it is the easiest and safest DPS job and they have a greater chance of getting someone with decent performance.

This is not a reason- every random player can be shity if found in Mordhona or elsewhere- this is not a class problem. But in spite of this we almost never see "lfg monk". We see (at all) "lfg dragoon", but not monk. Repeat- every random player can be shity player, but in spite of this monk is never in a search by raid

[NoctisUmbra]

This is not a reason- every random player can be shity if found in Mordhona or elsewhere- this is not a class problem. But in spite of this we almost never see "lfg monk". We see (at all) "lfg dragoon", but not monk. Repeat- every random player can be shity player, but in spite of this monk is never in a search by raid

MNK players have a higher ratio of being bad because the job itself it seems is too difficult for a lot of people. Yes, every job can have a shitty player behind it. Problem is, MNK DPS varies the most based on player skill. A shitty MNK will do worse than a shitty <insert other DD here>. On the flipside a good MNK will do better than a good <insert other DD here>. That is the nature of the job.

Again, you cannot use what people shout for as an argument for whether a job needs balance adjustments or not. That's about as flimsy as arguments get.

People typically just shout for DPS, regardless of job. Just go in there as MNK and perform well. If you can't, don't go thinking the job needs adjustments. Either get better or pick an easier job.

[neoreturn]

MNK players have a higher ratio of being bad because the job itself it seems is too difficult for a lot of people. Yes, every job can have a shitty player behind it. Problem is, MNK DPS varies the most based on player skill...

You have very wrong logical thinking. Pug doesn't mean bad. You think you are good MNK? you to me is a pug. Even i know you good, i am not inviting you for coil t4. Any pug can be good or bad to any class. MNK just don't bring any thing to team. Your DPS are on top is nothing when you are only few percentage higher. Do you know what's mean value and what is stand deviation? MNK DPS mean value in all population is in the middle of other dps class but stand deviation is high. So there is no point to pick MNK over others when MNK can't do this, can't do that with few percentage high in DPS if did good job.

[NoctisUmbra]

You have very wrong logical thinking. Pug doesn't mean bad. You think you are good MNK? you to me is a pug. Even i know you good, i am not inviting you for coil t4. Any pug can be good or bad to any class. MNK just don't bring any thing to team. Your DPS are on top is nothing when you are only few percentage higher. Do you know what's mean value and what is stand deviation? MNK DPS mean value in all population is in the middle of other dps class but stand deviation is high. So there is no point to pick MNK over others when MNK can't do this, can't do that with few percentage high in DPS if did good job.

Don't think you understand what I'm saying. English also doesn't appear to be your first language, and thus I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you're saying here. That being said...

DPS is of the most significance when it comes to a DPS job. Beyond the various flavors of support each DPS job can bring to specific content, your primary job is DPS. Higher DPS is therefore desirable.

I am not saying PUG is bad as a whole. I'm saying results from PUGs are a bad measure of how good a job is. I am suggesting that bad MNKs perform far worse than bad BLMs, BRDs, DRGs and perhaps even SMNs. On the flipside, when played right they outperform them all.

I do coil turn 4 on MNK. I have a reasonably geared BLM and BRD as well. Both very popular options for turn 4 due to it being safer for the various mechanics. Why does my FC ask me to come on my MNK then? Simple. Because it makes a significant impact on how fast select targets, such as the dreadnaughts and rooks go down.

Again, I don't doubt that by some mean value MNK DPS is in the middle. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the job. That just means there is a very large variance in DPS based on player performance when it comes to MNK. This is expected. The devs wouldn't be able to design a job that does such a significant amount of DPS higher than other jobs when played optimally if they didn't make it a high risk - high reward type job where mistakes are very costly.

[Myrin]

You can, in fact, solo interrupt ADS with it. It is a very ineffective use of MNK, but quite possible because Arm of the Destroyer, MNK's Silence skill, is on GCD and furthermore it is an Opo-Opo stance skill and therefore always available every ~2s (under GL3 ). Some companies actually ran with that method on ADS first before switching to BRDs/PLDs.

I wouldn't say inneffective, but less effective.

Yes you can't use full rotation if you're in silence duty. But in my case I perform well enough to not wait to place AoD and still do nearly full rotations. Nearly beacause what I don't do is refresh DoT on time, but the adds are down quickly enough so that it's not a real problem.

For T2 Boss, I can -nearly- fully silence it, but I can't use ToD or fracture. And nearly because sometimes the boss skill rotation shift the cast of high voltage (?) and I need backup from a BRD or PAL, but it happen 1 or 2 times during the fight.