Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[NoctisUmbra]

I don't see monks doing higher dps than drg in my sim.

Please check the given rotation and let me know if there are glaring flaws in the rotation!

Yikes... that's unfortunate. I wish you all the best on your work with your sim. However, as it stands I don't trust any sims and surely do not base my claims on them. Rather, I base them on in game testing.

DRG is in fact at best average in terms of DPS. In a prolonged fight, BRD is really the only job it will outperform. DRG brings good burst damage as well as an enemy piercing debuff that will increase any ally BRD DPS as well. My hypothesis is that the devs considered this when balancing DRG. They may have acted a bit heavy-handed though, which explains the buffs DRG will be receiving in 2.1.

PS: I'm not sure what rotation you are asking me to take a look at.

[Ryutamashiisan]

1. Noone (noone reasonable) is saying monk is "bad" but that they provide no reason to take them over any other dps. Mantra's utility is questionable, but I have not done Coil so I can't speak to this.
2. AFAIK DK does not affect any DoTs. Furthermore, not sure if it affects ID either, as that is a borrowed skill from DRG and should be under piercing.
3. ID is NEVER more efficient than BS > True > SP, thus if TP is an issue, ID should not be on your bars (perhaps during BFB/IR, it is worth as a filler).
4. FR is also iffy, but more efficient than ID...barely.

1. ID is affected by the Twin Snakes bonus, i have tested this on the 50 training dummies in whiterbim as i was curious myself. Feel free to test it, the difference is even apparent to nothing but an eyeball test
2.DoT's are not affected by DK but the skills that apply the DoT's are and you should try to maximize initial damage, also ensure that TS is up ufring dot ticks.

[Ryutamashiisan]

3. You don't spam ID nor is it a replacement for anything, you pop ID before you use BS > TS > SP. If you use it every combo you will run out of TP quickly, but that's just basic TP management
4. Fracture has fairly high initial damage for a DOT, can be used for DoT regen, and has little to no impact on your rotation. Depending on the player (IF your fast enough to stick it and get your next combo off)
5. TP doesn't become an issue until turn 4 in coil at which point invigorate more then makes up for it
6. ID has the exact same damage potency as snap punch and counts as blunt damage when used by a mnk, theres no good reason NOT to use it before boot-shine, unless you are crunched for GL time.

If your having TP issues from the occasional fracture and throwing a ID before bootshine that's a whole different set of problems.

[Rochetm]

If your having TP issues from the occasional fracture and throwing a ID before bootshine that's a whole different set of problems.

In nothing but DL gear and relic +1 I run out of TP on long fights without ID. Not sure what you are doing wrong but it seems you are not pushing buttons fast enough or have a bard feeding you TP.

[Ryutamashiisan]

In nothing but DL gear and relic +1 I run out of TP on long fights without ID. Not sure what you are doing wrong but it seems you are not pushing buttons fast enough or have a bard feeding you TP.

Yeah, not sure how your managing to run out of TP, i don't ever run out of TP until coil turn 4 until the last dread naught and the initial rockbreaker spam, how often do you invigorate? Maybe your supporting DPS isn't up to snuff?
Which fights do you find yourself running out of TP on? Im genuinely curious.

As a side note I use controller (even though i play on PC) there are no button pressing issues. All of my frequently uses abilities (i.e. weaponskills, bfb, ir,etc) require nothing but a quick flick of two fingers to activate my cross-bar shortcuts.
Also i have literally never seen a BRD use Minuet, certainly not in coil. Ballad for Mages, Requiem for BLM in turn 2 ADS but never Minuet.

[enil]

snip.

Your experience differs from every other Monk i've spoken to/and my own experiences.
Try dps non-stop on a training dummy and time yourself, even with perfect usage on invigorate you should not last longer than 4 minutes before running out of TP.

edit: rough maths
TP regenerates 60/tick (tick = 3 seconds)
Poorly geared pugilst will have 2.1 second GCD at 3xGL.
On average 60TP moves - starting at 1000 TP. You are draining TP at a rate of 8.6~ TP/Second.
This gives you roughly 116 seconds of uninterrupted DPS before you run out of TP.

Invigorate is 400TP/120 seconds. You get to 600TP roughtly about 47 seconds into the fight, where you can first then use Invig. This will put you back at full TP before you run out again after another 116 seconds. Invigorate comes back up very shortly after that. You get 47+116+47 before you become TP starved. 3 and a half minutes.

This is very rough maths, just using it to illustrate my point - at better gear levels you will have lower GCD and using Frac/ID/ToD will increase you TP cost.

[Ryutamashiisan]

Who knows, personal experience is anecdotal. If you consider there's fight mechanics that require you to temporarily run out of DPS range, how good the other DPS in your party are (i.e. how quickly things die) everyone experience varies wildly. While i don't doubt u'd run out of TP spamming it for minutes on end against a standalone dummy, live action fights rarely reflects what happens with training dummies beyond using new rotations and gear that increase DPS.

I wont sit here and deny anyone's personal experiences and TP issues but its just not been that case for me. Perhaps its better QoL? Who knows. Although its certainly interesting to hear how quickly people are running out a TP and would certainly explain why there so little use of fracture and Impulse drive.

[Naalya-Deix]

Combo ID > ID > BS > TS > SP will be either a GL3 lost (if you come from Twin Snakes before ID) OR Twin Snakes about 4 sec~ which is huge in many fight and if you have the correct gear (don't speak about Skill Speed, please).
The best combo that doesn't remove the buff is BS > ID (to replace TS and yes, this is not a TP issue to replace 60 with 70 if you rush the rights stats (Determination) on your gear in the end) > ID > Twin Snakes (<=2 sec left~) > SP > DK ... so on.

Which bring us to our "main" issue : give True Strike a boost (and not a crit boost, the potency difference is largely enough for ID to be better). True Strike is a TP buffer ability IF you have tp issues.

[EasymodeX]

Who knows, personal experience is anecdotal. If you consider there's fight mechanics that require you to temporarily run out of DPS range,

My question would be "if you consider that a skill player can bypass mechanics and reduce off-time on a boss" ...

Then a Monk is eating through TP very fast.

Personally I don't even Fracture except during BFB/IR because it costs too much TP.

[NoctisUmbra]

I completely keep Fracture and ID exclusive to burn phases. If I need to burst something, or burn something down asap like Dreadnaughts in Turn 4, I just toss them in there like crazy. The trick is to go into those phases with appropriate starting TP.

In general though, both are very inefficient skills compared to MNK's native repertoire. If you have TP issues in any instance, the first thing to do is drop ID and Fracture from your rotations completely.