IS that normal

[Amayasu]

Macro Provoke + Ranged threat ability (both tanks have one).

Getting to the top of the threat list is insanely useful. It's your job to capitalise on it.

[Amayasu]

The only thing I agree with here is to make a PLD healing capabilities stronger. Too strong? No. A paladin shouldn't be able to cure for 700 hp. But at least buff it so that it feels like there was a point to having CNJ as a sub-class. The fact that a PLD would heal for only 150 damage is incredibly frustrating as it serves no purpose. If a white mage's cure spell can heal for 700, then at most let the Paladin heal for 350. ... snip...

I don't get the need to buff cure. We're not healers. When tanking, casting cure is just a sign that things are bad anyway. If your healers are dead there's something wrong, and if you're really at the point where the only thing left to you is cure spam then something is really wrong; wipe it up, go again.

PLD has so many amazing mitigation tools. Healing is not our thing, nor should it be. Mitigation is our thing.

[Lucavern]

The reason for having a cure available to a tank is so the tank can help alleviate stress from healers while healers are topping off party members after AoE dmg (Primal LB moves for example). Easiest fix would be to have PLD treat melee weapon damage as magic damage for curative magic. As it is right now, there is barely a use for anything from CNJ cross-class.

From memory, CNJ gets:
Cure - Less than 200HP per cast at lvl 50.
Protect - Equal casting power as a SCH. IMHO, SCH is better served casting as they need for WAR who can't self-cast.
Stoneskin - Arguable usability. FC mate is telling me he's been getting some usage out of this during Coil.
Raise - Not worth putting on bar outside of Fate events. Since PLD can't battle raise, there is rarely a time that the PLD is alive and able to actually use. During dungeons, it is usually faster to return to start and shortcut, rather than get stuck with a weakness effect.

Also, Provoke needs to provide snap-aggro for 5s. As it is right now, it usually happens that you provoke only to have a hot/dot tick during the next second and the effects of provoke be wasted. 5s gives you 2 gcd abilities to get the mob back in position and rebuild your threat advantages. Nothing sucks more than provoking and having the mob move towards you, and then instantly turn back around and go for someone else.

[Conna]

just make it a non enmity boost 3skill combo.

say, add another skill to riot blade combo like i mentioned in another post, make the 3rd skill give block rate boost and make cure instant healing for 200% potency last for 5sec.

Did you just suggest a buff for the class that is already the primary tank class to the point where I want to club a baby seal if someone tries to make me heal a warrior... I think not. Sorry, but your class is fine in comparison.

[Vanidin]

OP is trolling. Move along.

[Ramzal]

-snip-

Like I said, we don't need a giant healing buff, but some sort of one. I'm more for making the most out of the tools I am given and the tools given from the CNJ tree are weak and flabby at best. It shouldn't hurt for a game to be a bit more flexible than "Tank, get punched a lot. Healer, heal everything in sight, DPS--JUST DPS!" I like being a Paladin, it's fun. The fact that I can throw a shield at someone's face while charging right at them, flash them with my magnificence so hard that it blinds them, and then smack their friends in the face with a shield is for a lack of better words "Pretty friggen cool", but my issue is that it get stale if all I am good for is getting punched in the gut from multiple guys at once. My issue is why even give me a CNJ set of skills when it serves me absolutely no purpose to use them? Sure the MRD tree helps, but if I can't be a mini-healer WITH my own special access to healing skills then what's the point?

And to make it perfectly clear as you've missed my point harder than Mike Piazza missed fast balls I don't want my PLD healing for a huge amount. Half or even a third of what a CNJ can do would make sense, but a tenth is just a waste of space. Having a Warrior do nothing but pure tanking makes sense, their subclasses have nearly nothing to do with healing others, but Paladin's do. Variety is always needed to keep interest/draw a clear difference between two things that are pretty much the same. Also, anything can happen to a healer. They can somehow think they are tanks and run head along into enemies. Or extra enemies can appear during boss fights, and they'd decide to throw their hands up and run around the places, yelling random letters out of their mouths in panic thinking it helps but in reality it makes our jobs harder. I've even had a healer that decided to go first into two groups of monsters and spam holy thinking I'd work--only for them to repurpose his organs for funny hats to wear on their heads.

I guess what I am getting at here is that we should be able to either be able to help with healing or be a decent fall back. And just to address the whole wiping thing--- Never should a team -ever- have to just kiss their bottoms good bye just because -one- member of the team bit it. That is not balance, that is old MMO mechanics that rear it's ugly head and need to go away. Losing one team member should be problematic, not systematic slaughter. It makes the gameplay blend with WoW/Rift/Lord of the Rings/Perfect world and the rest of that stuff. Not saying I have a problem with the battle system, it flows smoothly enough. But the team set-up...there are some big issues there.

[Vamp007]

I guess what I am getting at here is that we should be able to either be able to help with healing or be a decent fall back. And just to address the whole wiping thing--- Never should a team -ever- have to just kiss their bottoms good bye just because -one- member of the team bit it. That is not balance, that is old MMO mechanics that rear it's ugly head and need to go away. Losing one team member should be problematic, not systematic slaughter. It makes the gameplay blend with WoW/Rift/Lord of the Rings/Perfect world and the rest of that stuff. Not saying I have a problem with the battle system, it flows smoothly enough. But the team set-up...there are some big issues there. <------ this

[Lucavern]

--- Never should a team -ever- have to just kiss their bottoms good bye just because -one- member of the team bit it.

Uhh... except groups can already do just that? I'm sorry you don't play with good players and haven't experienced this yet, I guess. Personally have trio'd the final boss of Stone Vigil with Pld, Blm, Drg after accidentally locking the healer out of the battle while they were in CS. Managed to have boss at 50% before they were out of CS, and dead shortly after. Duo'd chimera with a drg from 50% in Qarn the other night while helping a friend after healer/dps died to Dragon's Voice (why Qarn Chimera is fully resistant to stun and Dhorme isn't still boggles my mind). SV fight was at level with level appropriate gear on all, chimera was sync'd down with lvl 50 gear however (don't think gear would have made any difference here)

The point of higher level content is to work as a group and for everyone to know the encounter. I completely think everyone needs to pull their weight for the group to succeed on the whole. Quit playing with DF pugs, make some friends and run the stuff together. The game isn't hard, and if you play with equally skilled people the "one person failing wipes group" goes away instantly.

[Ehayte]

Things and stuff.

I agree 100% here (I don't particularly like how this poster decided to TELL us about it...but...), a PLD's cure is sufficient enough for now. At level 42 I cure for about 130 normally, and with Coval popped I heal for 180-200. Get more Piety and I am assuming that amount goes up? My favorite, most memorable times as a PLD is after the healer is dead : D.

Convalescence + Sentinel + Cure x 15 to keep myself alive for the last 20% of the dragon in Stone Vigil? Sweet! I'd like a little more power, but with the right CDs up Cure is useful.

[Lucavern]

snip

Piety would increase your maximum MP, MND would increase the cure potency. I haven't had a chance to test the per-point potency of MND, but from what I can tell its not enough that it would make a worthwhile difference. Last time I checked my cure amount I think it was roughly 220? As I've said before (think it was earlier in this thread), biggest way to make cure viable for PLD would be to allow PLD to treat weapon damage as magic dmg for cure formulas. This would put Curtana at ~lvl 35-40 healer range as far as weapon goes.

As for my attitude in the previous post, that was purely directed at the troll. My patience has run out for trolls begging to make the game even more easy-mode without understanding the game mechanics.