Dark Devices - Phase 1 Exploit

[Dantes]

Snip

This is likely to be the only reply that I make to you in this thread. I've no opinion of you as a person, however, you've made it clear from your original post to your last that you have no patience for, or interest in, any views other than your own.

I never said "They designed that way, and while it is cheap and easy it's totally intended!". You're obviously either in need of a re-read, lacking in reading comprehension skills, and/or trolling. To paraphrase what I did say: I find it challenging to accept that the fate's designer/s failed to see that this behavior would be the outcome of their design. If you'd like to converse, you might respond to what was actually in my post rather than creating content to attack. E.g., you could try to help me understand why SE designed so many Fates this way.
If you prove unable to respond to what I've said & insist on attacking positions you've made up for me, I, again, will not reply further to you.

[Motic]

Dark Devices is a four stage L:49 fate that spawns in Northern Thanalan. The first phase is poorly designed, allowing players to farm infinitely spawning mobs while completely ignoring the target mobs that spawn near the mine entrance. What results is approximately 14:30 of people spamming AOE and doing nothing else in order to earn anywhere from 10,000 to 200,000 XP depending on the quality (and luck) of their group.

This is an XP and quality of life exploit on par with "speed runs" of certain L:50 instances and needs to be fixed ASAP.


This needs to be changed so that the mobs only spawn near the target mobs, or that the target mobs charge into the fight as soon as the non-target mobs are engaged. That way this fate can progress as intended. The other three phases of the fate are working as intended.

Your the guy that charges me for extra sauce at Tokyo Joe's aren't you? Only person that lets it bother you... is you.

[Errors]

The amount of personal bashing found in this thread makes a little part of my idea of a good community found on these forums die a little each time. While I understand that what you generally see on these forums are the vocal minority. I can't help feel that some of the people in this thread that throw around personal attacks do nothing but justify the OP's stance. Why be so aggressive to something as simple as an opinion on a game mechanic?

I have never understood what compels people to be utterly rude to someone that may or may not disagree with your opinion. What goes through one's head to make them think that will change someone's view point? Where is the discussion going to start if you act like a toddler and yell at people for disagreeing view points?

My stance, just to make sure I do contribute to the discussion, I personally feel it's an exploit. No matter how you hard you try to squint, put on rosy shades, or just don't want to acknowledge it. While the FATE system has been an awesome source of EXP for folks, since the alternatives seem to be lack luster in comparison. The prolonging of completion of a FATE to have a virtually limitless spawn of mobs to EXP off of doesn't appear what they were designed for. There are only a few FATEs that fall under this condition. My question is why don't other FATEs give as much of a EXP bonus for such little effort? It just plainly doesn't make any sense to design a FATE that pretty much trumps all other EXP routes. This doesn't feel balanced and I feel not the intention they (SE designers/developers) had in mind. Personally, I think the FATE system wasn't meant to handle the amount of people actually interacting with them. Designing something, especially when it comes to game mechanics usually has some sort of idea on what the optimal amount of people who would do X Y Z interaction.

What will SE do? Who knows, they tend to be pretty tight lipped on fixes, patches, opinions on matters like this until they decide to do something. Either they fix it, leave it be, ban people, warn people, or simply just sit back and eat popcorn while folks bicker back and forth.

tldr: Hello

[Pugmalion1]

Oh god! xD
I think I'm the guy who would have LOTS of fun doing this. My sides would be on the moon!

I know, right? I'm not there yet in my main class, but I think I would have a ton of fun putting together a group of four or five like-minded individuals and focusing on ruining this fate every time it popped. Whenever I see a new version of this thread, it just makes me want to do that more and more.

[Felis]

I think it is more like "abandon the leve before it finish because the monsters there give more exp than the reward if many people linked their leves and we want to do the leve tomorow again" during spring 2011.
SE fixed it with reducing the monsters exp and increasing the reward exp. But an exploid was it not exactly.

[Dantes]

I have never understood what compels people to be utterly rude to someone that may or may not disagree with your opinion. What goes through one's head to make them think that will change someone's view point? Where is the discussion going to start if you act like a toddler and yell at people for disagreeing view points?

^ x 1000.
While you seem to feel that the group guilty of this is the group that is for the DD Fate to remain as it is, I agree with you completely. I see culprits on both sides of the argument, however. The OP himself is guilty of employing a straw man to try and attack a post of mine despite my never even disagreeing with him on whether this is an exploit.
I sincerely hope that it is not revealed to be considered an exploit because a good number of people will be impacted that would never have participated in the event if SE had simply come out and said that this was an exploit in its eyes.

[Kagato]

I went into Dark Devices for the first time last week. I saw a lot of people killing these enemies and the progress bar wasn't rising. So what did I do? I made a shout:

"Why is the progress bar not going up?"
"We're farming exp! Only killing Lambs raises the progress bar, so don't kill them yet."

I wasn't in a party so my participation in the FATE didn't mean anything as I was getting no EXP. But did I go to the Lambs and kill them anyway? NO! Why? Because what right do I have to ruin everyone else's fun simply because I wasn't in a party or something? it wasn't my choice to make and it honestly would be a dick move to be some killjoy that pulled the plug on these people. What right did I have? Zero. The people who kill the Lambs despite people giving shouts not to do so are doing it for one thing:

These people kill Lambs for the sole purpose of ruining everyone else's experience because he/she believes he/she is more entitled than everyone else!

That's all it is. They may feel it's an exploit. they may feel it's not intended. They may feel whatever they may feel, but people who kill the Lambs and force everyone else to stop are the types of people who, quite frankly, feel that he/she has the right to determine how others should play. They feel like they are entitled with the power and authority to determine whether or not something should proceed in a certain way or not, and if anyone dares to question it, they are wrong.

This is similar to having a superiority complex, or even a minor form of God complex. In other words, they believe they are better than you and will determine wther or not you should have fun or not based on what THEY believe. Not you. Not the 100 people in the FATE. Not anyone but themselves. They feel they know what's best and will go out of their way to punish anyone who goes against them.

THAT is why people will blacklist them, and that is why I let everyone else enjoy the FATE the way they wanted to do it and even join in myself, because it is not my place to force anyone to play the game a certain way or not. The only people with that right are the game devs, and they will change it the way THEY see fit, if at all.

The OP and anyone supporting him, however, have no right. They only think they do, and that is what makes them blacklist targets for hundreds of people, and that is why this topic is a real mess.

After I post this, I'm almost certain I'll be replied to by the OP or someone who supports him about how I'm wrong or that I support an "exploit" or whatever BS they come up with, but it'll only prove my point that they feel like they are entitled to determine how someone should play the game, because they are control freaks who won't accept anyone who goes against what they think is right or wrong and will go out of their way to enforce it... all because they think it is their responsibility or right.

[Orophin]

To paraphrase what I did say: I find it challenging to accept that the fate's designer/s failed to see that this behavior would be the outcome of their design.

The devs can't anticipate every possible scenario for things. Thus the reason they didn't anticipate people would just skip the trash in AK. Give it a week - this FATE will be patched as well.

People will continue to find methods to beat the system and SE will keep patching them. It's just how things work in online games.

[Ruprect]

Dark Devices is a four stage L:49 fate that spawns in Northern Thanalan. The first phase is poorly designed, allowing players to farm infinitely spawning mobs while completely ignoring the target mobs that spawn near the mine entrance. What results is approximately 14:30 of people spamming AOE and doing nothing else in order to earn anywhere from 10,000 to 200,000 XP depending on the quality (and luck) of their group.

This is an XP and quality of life exploit on par with "speed runs" of certain L:50 instances and needs to be fixed ASAP.

This needs to be changed so that the mobs only spawn near the target mobs, or that the target mobs charge into the fight as soon as the non-target mobs are engaged. That way this fate can progress as intended. The other three phases of the fate are working as intended.

This is why we can't have nice things. Who cares if ppl are using it to level. The leveling process for your 2nd/3rd etc class is abysmal. You have 0 classes to 50, wait until you start your second with no quests to do.

[Dantes]

The devs can't anticipate every possible scenario for things...It's just how things work in online games.

Firstly, thanks for this response. I have absolutely no experience with designing software or games and therefore try to avoid presuming what should be expected of game devs when it comes to matters such as these.

What you're saying makes a ton of sense. Besides certain notorious examples of large scale bannings, I didn't experience much of the cycle you've mentioned during my years playing FFXI. Yet, if it is BAU that people beat the system/devs patch/repeat and they didn't intend for anyone to gain this much xp from fates like these (there are other fates with the same design issue), then I fully expect them to patch all of them.
Thanks again.