Dark Devices - Phase 1 Exploit

[Badger]

I'm always open to the idea that I could be wrong, but nothing about this screams exploit. Does it scream cheap and ridiculously easy? ... these fates didn't create themselves, this way accidentally.

Come on now. This is the same logic used by the people defending the speed run exploit. "They designed that way, and while it is cheap and easy it's totally intended!" Wrong. This is wrong too, and is causing problems on servers between people trying to do the even the way it is meant to be done (read: FATE objectives) and the people trying to farm 20x more XP than any other fate in the game (to my knowledge) can provide.

you guys do know that EVERY time you reply to this guy keeps him at the top of the list and the devs well see whats goin on....

Don't talk about it, someone might find out we're exploiting! If you are so sure this is a legitimate thing, why are you afraid of other people bumping it?

[Dantes]

Snip

This is likely to be the only reply that I make to you in this thread. I've no opinion of you as a person, however, you've made it clear from your original post to your last that you have no patience for, or interest in, any views other than your own.

I never said "They designed that way, and while it is cheap and easy it's totally intended!". You're obviously either in need of a re-read, lacking in reading comprehension skills, and/or trolling. To paraphrase what I did say: I find it challenging to accept that the fate's designer/s failed to see that this behavior would be the outcome of their design. If you'd like to converse, you might respond to what was actually in my post rather than creating content to attack. E.g., you could try to help me understand why SE designed so many Fates this way.
If you prove unable to respond to what I've said & insist on attacking positions you've made up for me, I, again, will not reply further to you.

[Badger]

I'm always open to the idea that I could be wrong, but nothing about this screams exploit. Does it scream cheap and ridiculously easy? Yes. However, assuming that the designer/s of Dark Designs are reasonable adults, it isn't easy for me to accept that this and so many other Fates were DESIGNED, these fates didn't create themselves, this way accidentally.

People defending speed runs (an exploit) used a similar argument. It's cheap and easy, but it was DESIGNED this way so it must be okay, when it was obvious to honest people that it wasn't. I didn't create any kind of straw-man in my first response to you. I was unable to write a more elaborate statement due to the arbitrary character limit on posts. This place is almost as bad as Twitter.

The developers didn't foresee people exploiting their dungeons (speed runs) either, but the dungeons were initially designed that way. It was brought to their attention and fixed.

I'm doing what the FATE wants me to do: Kill Lambs of Dalamud. Exploiters be damned.

[Dantes]

I guess my issue with Dark Designs is that the behavior debated about over the last 10 pages only makes sense.
If I'm designing this Fate why would I expect players to skip the 20 or so xp providing enemies just to get to the 5 or 6 enemies that are necessary to complete the fate? If I don't expect them defeated repeatedly, why would I set them to respawn in seconds?
I'm no game designer but its hard for me to imagine that if I were I would expect the following line of thinking from a rational adult: "Ok, I'm here to gain experience points. To complete this event I must literally run through a mob of enemies that provide experience points to attack a small number of enemies. I will, therefore, ignore the glaring opportunity gain a large amount of experience points by chaining/defeating enemies and skip them to reach the 5 enemies behind them."

[Tsunenori]

snip

I think you have a half-truth there. The designers of this FATE definitely intended the enemies to hinder progress, and absolutely intended for them to be killed repeatedly as you're looking for the objective enemies, but I don't think they anticipated 50+ people bum-rushing it for weeks on end. Just like how the servers were having trouble, just like how the Duty Finder has had issues, I think this too is a matter of scale and of their not anticipating enough people there at one time to allow for this to happen.

In a world where FFXIV: ARR started with a slow burn instead of a large bang I don't think we would have seen this become the divisive topic that it is.

[Dantes]

snip

I can accept your point.
If that's the whole of it, I still don't think that what has resulted is an exploit. If it does move it into the territory of exploit, doesn't that move us into an era where we have to manage how many players are participating at once in any one event? I'm not trying to be dramatic but I'd like to avoid a scenario in which I must wonder if I'm participating in an exploit because the speed at which an objective is being completed is "too fast" since more players than expected are participating at once.

[Tsunenori]

...doesn't that move us into an era where we have to manage how many players are participating at once in any one event?

I think that's probably the best solution, yes. I've only done the FATE once, but I liked the spirit of it and of the whole chain. I'd rather see FATEs scale dynamically based on the amount of players involved rather than see this FATE and all others like it completely destroyed or nerfed into the ground, and I think they've said that they're looking into ways they can do that as well. This should, hopefully, prevent this from being an issue in the future where instead of having 70 players in a FATE designed for 20, you'll have 70 players in a FATE that scales for 70. It would also cut out a lot of this abhorrent behavior surrounding the whole thing, which is my main issue if I'm honest.

[Dantes]

Tsunenori:

This is 95% of my issue with it.
I couldn't care any less about anyone's, including my own, xp gain rate. Call me old school, but I grew up (I literally grew up) playing FFXI from launch until around 2010/11. I was ok with slowly leveling in Valkurm Dunes. I even remember trying to reach the old level cap in Bibiki Bay fighting Dhalmel. So leveling slowly is just part of a FF game to me.
What I do care about is common courtesy and decency. If I see a group of other people working together to accomplish something constructive, like xping, I'm not going to go over and ruin it. Also, if someone ruins my opportunity out of ignorance, I'm not going to yell at them. Both sides could use more patience with, and consideration for, the other.
The other 5% of my issue is with SE's silence on whether or not this is working as intended. That silence has contributed its share to the behavior as its enabled both sides to feel they're right and the other is full idiots.

[SenKoyo]

What a joy kill.

It doesn't harm anything, and we still went and completed the other FATEs in the area - sheesh. Like that extra 10 minutes would be spent doing dungeons...riiiiight.

[jdlswan]

you guys do know that EVERY time you reply to this guy keeps him at the top of the list and the devs well see whats goin on....