WAR vs PLD HP values and EHP.

[Eardstapa]

So thanks to Valk's wonderful website, we can figure out HP values rather easily and effective HP just as easily. However, in my down time I had decided to check the HP Values of our beefy Roegadyn Seawolves (Since they of course have the most VIT) to see just how much of a lead WAR has when many claim the higher HP card. To start off with, every class has a HP multiplier per level. PLD has 22, and WAR has 25. Without factoring in any VIT at all, this leaves them at 2040 and 2125 respectively. A good bit of difference there to start, aye?

But then I noticed something while doing the formula, which Valk provides as; HP = Base HP + (14.5 X (VIT-202)) for the general public. So at level 50, with base stats Roegadyn Seawolves have 237 VIT for both PLD and WAR. Time to do some math fellows.

PLD; 2040 + (14.5 X (237-202)) = 2547.5
WAR; 2125 + (14.5 X (237-202)) = 2632.5

WAR still has more HP than PLD at this point, but it is hardly a great lead like many of us had thought to begin with. Now we are going to add stats from gear, and then eventually 30 Attribute points to VIT as well. We'll start with WAR on this one.

With maxed gear, we'll do the formula again for WAR.
2125 + (14.5 X (488-202)) = 6272.

And now for PLD.
2025 + (14.5 X (488-202)) = 6172.

So far it's a 100 HP difference in WARs favor, right? Well, wait until Effective HP is thrown into this... But for now, we'll add the 30 Attribute points from VIT.

[Eardstapa]

WAR; 2125 + (14.5 X (518-202)) = 6707
PLD; 2025 + (14.5 X (518-202)) = 6607.

That's a constant 100 HP lead, isn't it? And it shows that VIT is 435 points worth of HP... Of course, it's worth more when EHP comes rearing its ugly head. So let us finally get to that, shall we? But because Valk does not provide the formula himself, and rather a calculator, I will tell you the settings I have used and provide a link for you to see yourself after this.

The highest amount of physical and magical defense we can currently get in game is 758 for tank gear, so in the calculator we obviously will use those values. We will be using both the 30 VIT Attribute points and the typical, "I need 30 STR to help hold aggro." AKA don't add the 30 VIT to show EHP.

To start, we shall use Paladin to show just how 'lovely' it is.

Paladin, without shield Oath, Rampart or Sentinel has an EHP of 9314.88 with 488 VIT and 758 physical defense. Adding in Shield Oath makes that jump to 11643.60 EHP. Now, add in the, "Oh crap, big attack coming!" Buttons. Which I will do as Rampart itself, Sentinel itself, and both, of course all tests having Shield Oath up.

With Rampart active as your oh crap button, PLD EHP jumps up to 14554.40. And with Sentinel it jumps up to 19406. And with both? Well besides being overkill, it jumps up to 24257.50! Now let's not forget PLD can use Foresight as well, so using that alone shows how weak it is. It only makes your EHP when used as an, "Oh crap!" Button jump up to 12953.33; Hardly that effective, however, stacked with Rampart and Sentinel... It causes your EHP to reach 26989.11, a rather lovely value. But now we must move onto WAR to show a rather lovely difference.

[Eardstapa]

WAR only has two skills that will increases its EHP it can use, Defiance, and Foresight. Using the same gear, without Defiance active gives WAR an EHP of 9442.85, it looks great, right? Well, that changes very, very soon. With Defiance the EHP of WAR jumps up to 11803.57; Still ahead of PLD, but barely. Awesome! Now let us throw in WARs only defensive skill, Foresight. This makes your EHP 13131.29; and that is as high as it will go with 488 VIT!

So now we can see why people prefer PLD tanks, because of course their EHP is through the roof while WAR is just... kicked to the side and forgotten for some peculiar reason. However, let us also note that with CDs used (All that you can use at once, of course) PLD only receives 22.93% of a physical damaging hit, where as WAR will take 59.70%.

But, for the last tidbit of information, let us show the effect of 30 more VIT. I won't be typing a paragraph for this one.

PLD 518 VIT EHP; 9969.80
Shield Oath; 12462.25
Shield Oath/Rampart; 15577.81
Shield Oath/Sentinel; 20770.41
Shield Oath/Rampart/Sentinel; 25963.02
Shield Oath/Foresight/Rampart/Sentinel; 28883.46

WAR 518 VIT EHP; 10097.77
Defiance; 12622.21
Defiance/Foresight; 14042.02

Mitigation Calculator; http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=213

So in conclusion, it is easy to see why many prefer PLD over WAR for tanking content currently, and why many healers dislike WARs. WARs will take a bigger hit, while PLDs a smaller one, giving WHMs an easier heal window and showing why they prefer them... It also shows how great the discrepancies between the two tanks are, and why WARs need a bit of love.

[oceanlord]

sad number..

[Eardstapa]

Ah, and I forgot to mention, please do not say the 15% healing bonus from Wrath stacks makes any difference what so-ever. If a WHM heals for 1000 on a PLD, they will heal for 1150 on a WAR. If a boss hits for 3000, a fully geared PLD will only take, with CD usage (Extreme point here, but still), 687.9, while a WAR will take 1791. The PLD will be healed in one heal, whilst the WAR will need 2 to break even.

[Lharz]

Here come the PLD defenders in one, two, ...

[Teleniel]

If you're burning all your defensive cool downs at once... I feel very bad for you.
Paladin should in all circumstances take less damage than War. That's what they're billed as.

On trash though you're looking at (your EHP numbers)
Paladin (Shield Oath) 12462
Warrior (Defiance) 12622 (also self-healing with Inner Beast + Wraith stack buff)

I would say... Warrior is 'easier' to maintain through trash. Paladin is 'easier' to maintain through bosses if they play smartly.
I haven't fought Titan(hard) or Bahamut's Coil, but I don't imagine there is a giant game change coming. So I'm prone to thinking that 1 Pld 1 War is going to be a smooth way through content.

[Lharz]

Cmon... Who cares about trash ?

[Savish]

Is this a joke? I mean you can't possibly be serious with this useless post, you completely ignored cooldown/duration timers for all skills and warrriors self healing to make it look like paladins have a massive advantage honestly these warrior whine threads are becoming ridiculous.

[Kiteless]

Is this a joke? I mean you can't possibly be serious with this useless post, you completely ignored cooldown/duration timers for all skills and warrriors self healing to make it look like paladins have a massive advantage honestly these warrior whine threads are becoming ridiculous.

As a Warrior player, I have to ask you one question: What are cooldowns? I don't think we get those.