A little help with Tanking

[juniglee]

Hi guys,

Need a few pointers for tanking. Since I got into Haukke I feel like I'm not tanking quite as well.

1. I know the best enmity generation combo is Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone. Considering that this is single target, and the whole combo takes quite a while to finish on one enemy, how effective is rotating it? By rotating it I mean going one full round per mob. If I had to tank average 3 mobs per pull, what are the chances that one of them might go for the AoE DPS (BLM), or the healer? Is it more effective to hit one with Savage Blade, and another with Rage of Halone per rotation?
2. Managing enmity on sleeping mobs. If I look at the enmity counter, since I don't touch sleeping mobs, their aggro usually kinda disappears whenever I have to wake them up.
3. How often should I use Flash in my combos? Currently I'm doing one FB > SB > RoH, then Flash to finish off, to ensure that monsters continue sticking to me.
4. I might be using Provoke wrong, but it has never seemed to work for me, when I try to pull off aggro from a healer/DPS. It goes right back to them, or doesn't seem affected at all.
5. Tanking FATE bosses - If you don't have someone to heal you, should you do it? FATE bosses are those like Lazy Lawrence, Cancer, etc. - huge, hits hard, and all that.
6. Should I spend some time leveling some other classes as well? For example, I am currently a Lv29 Gladiator, with my Lv15 Conjurer done and ready for Paladin quest. Should I spend some time with other classes like Lancer (Keen Flurry), Marauder (Foresight, Bloodbath), etc. before continuing on to Lv50 as a Paladin?

Thanks for any advice.

[Myrthele]

1. Savage Blade/Rage of Halone are the ones with enmity builders, so make sure you rotate those among your targets, while dumping Rage of Halone into the target that needs the most enmity
2. Flash increases enmity on sleeping mobs without waking them up
3. at your lvl Flash is still effective. later on, not so much. Use it while it is still useful!
4. Provoke has NO fixate unlike other mmos where taunts do. If you just press it you will find it ineffective. MOB goes to another player: don't provoke unless you have a savage blade or rage of halone up to be used immediately after. (it only sets your enmity slightly above that player)
5. <pos> in the chat for asking for a rez when you die :P it gets better later on. Don't be afraid to run away, it'll be a clue to others that you need a heal
6. nope. conj to 15 for cure/weak protect. marauder to lvl 2 for foresight. Stay pally with sword oath even for questing. the STR boost for equipping your soul crystal is no joke

[Anubis_Nephthys]

1. I don't rotate my skills like that unless a DPS has slipped up and attacked the wrong enemy.
This is how I pull trash mobs: 1) Mark mobs with "2" and sometimes "3". I have a macro that combines Mark "1" and Shield Lob together. 2) Once things are marked, and I pulled the first one, I Flash. 3) I run through FB-SB-RH, and then i Flash again. 4) From here I just rinse and repeat. It seems to work fine. If a mob gets away, I'll Shield Lob it back to me and Flash.

2. The periodic Flash should be all you need to maintain aggro on sleeping mobs.

3. Yea.

4. From what I understand about Provoke, it doesn't do what you think it does. Provoke seems to set the enmity equal between everyone who's involved. Say the mob is attacking the healer; we'll say the healer has "70% of the aggro", and you have "30% of the aggro". If you do provoke, you both now have "50% of the aggro", so whoever does something to get its attention first, is the one to get attacked. So when I use provoke, I follow up with a Shield Lob, and a Flash like I said before.

5. Yea. I usually wait around for a minute or two to wait for some squishy spell-casters. I'm sure they as just as glad to see me as I am to see them. :P

6. Well, as a PLD, you can only cross-class from MRD, and CNJ. So, I would only level the MRD up to level 8. That way, you get Foresight, and Bloodbath (while not as useful as it is on MRD/WAR, Bloodbath can still be used to "stay above water", or pretty close to it.)

I hope my slightly more experience helps!

[Myrthele]

.....Once things are marked, and I pulled the first one, I Flash. 3) I run through FB-SB-RH, and then i Flash again. 4) From here I just rinse and repeat. It seems to work fine. If a mob gets away, I'll Shield Lob it back to me and Flash..

this works great for your level. once you get to 50 and have geared dps putting out solid AOE you may find it not working fyi. I know I have to rage of halone everything at least once, unless there are >4 mobs and everyone is only AOEing, then I just flash spam & go back to normal rotation once I'm settled in.

[Anubis_Nephthys]

this works great for your level. once you get to 50 and have geared dps putting out solid AOE you may find it not working fyi. I know I have to rage of halone everything at least once, unless there are >4 mobs and everyone is only AOEing, then I just flash spam & go back to normal rotation once I'm settled in.

Well, i was under the impression that DPS AoE was bad, unless it's the SUPER trash mobs that their AoE is meant for (dies in 1 or 2 AoEs). I know i've had to change up my rotation, but that was because the Bard was insistent on spamming his AoE. As long as the DPS and I are on the same page, My strategy should work, no? Idk, you are higher level that me; you've seen more. But i don't feel like it should change too much from what I already do.

[juniglee]

Ok thanks for the tips. Got a few more questions too:

1. When would you use Shield Bash? Is it worth it to break your combo for the stun when you see the enemy charging up their AoE attack?
2. Long drawn out battles sometimes sees me running out of TP. Other than spamming Flash, what else do you do while you wait for TP to recharge?

Regarding Provoke: I do that with Provoke (have a ready Savage Blade/Rage of Halone, or Shield Lob), but it does not seem to work out right for me. I must be doing something wrong.

[Avalon_Albrook]

I'm sure I'll get some healer flack for saying this, but depending on the fight, I pick and choose what's worth stunning. For fights like Ifrit and the first boss of Qarn, I prioritize stunning as soon as I know I've pulled aggro. For other fights like the Temple Guardian, I never stun, just focus on taking out the soulstone as fast as possible along with the DDs since his aoe attacks aren't aggro-dependent and I make sure everyone is very clear before the fight on how important it is to just dodge his aoe attacks. For some mobs, stun is huge to have ready at a moment's notice, like the Temple Bees in Qarn (because of their sting) and the maidservants in the Manor (because of their Dark Mist or whatever it's called). Those jerkwads bees with their Final Sting are just... screw them, screw them so hard. So, work your combos on them, but after a little bit of time, let the DPS action kill them and you be ready to stun their sting the instant it becomes necessary. It's trial and error stuff like that that'll build up your own instinct of when to throw a stun regardless of your combo.

[Fornix]

Ok thanks for the tips. Got a few more questions too:

1. When would you use Shield Bash? Is it worth it to break your combo for the stun when you see the enemy charging up their AoE attack?
2. Long drawn out battles sometimes sees me running out of TP. Other than spamming Flash, what else do you do while you wait for TP to recharge?

Regarding Provoke: I do that with Provoke (have a ready Savage Blade/Rage of Halone, or Shield Lob), but it does not seem to work out right for me. I must be doing something wrong.

1. I hardly ever use Shield Bash. As it's on the GCD it breaks my momentum. I rather continue building enmity and hop on over to the next pack instantly rather than throwing in low enmity skills. Ifrit and Hydra are the only fights I use Shield Bash.

2. Tell my DPS to stop slacking and get their act together. In addition to that, I cast an additional flash every now and then to keep up the blind debuff on mobs. By doing so I'm getting just that extra bit of TP regen during fights already.

3. As for provoke, bear in mind that it gives you top threat + 1. So if someone stole threat, and you provoke and then shield lob you get netto the following enmity: 1 + 6x shield lob dmg, which.... isn't too high. Roughly a 350 enmity gain or so. If a BLM for example for some reason stole aggro, some of them can crit for well over 1k. That's bam, instant aggro regain to them. If a healer took aggro and directly casts an AoE heal? That's bam, instant aggro regain to them. Provoke isn't so much a skill which is used only by the tank, it's a skill to which others should respond as well by reducing their threat gain. Otherwise it's simply not going to work.

[juniglee]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I've found that if you do know when to use Shield Bash, it's actually a pretty nifty tool to have. For example, you know that the Manor Maidservants in Haukke Manor will always open with their Dark Mist AoE attack, so it's safe to use Shield Bash then as you wouldn't have begun using your combo yet. Another use for Shield Bash is when you have only one opponent aggro'ed (ie. the Manor Servant) - I've been able to disrupt his AoE attack every single time without any problems. Although it breaks my combo, but that's not a problem as I have a lot of aggro to begin with already. If I have to stun him with the Jester alive, then I just break my combo to stun him, because I've applied a full round of FB -> SB -> RoH combo on each of them once for the initial enmity. I've read that the same stunning principles should be applied for Dhorme Chimera, so I guess this is good practice of knowing when they will attack, and when to disrupt it.

Sometimes the DPS isn't able to output enough damage, and eventually my TP runs out. Such was the case with my Brayflox run yesterday with the last boss.

My current rotation is:
1. Pull with Shield Lob. If there's a ranged mob, I'll use Shield Lob on the ranged one, and then run to it, to bring all the melees to it as well.
2. When all the monsters are grouped together, I use Flash once.
3. I use Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone on marked mob #1. Then Flash.
4. Swich to mark #2. Repeat the combo. Use Flash once more. If there's a total of only 2 mobs, I don't use Flash, and switch to #1 and repeat the combo.
5. Switch to mark #3. Repeat the combo. If there's only 3 mobs in total, I don't use Flash after this - I switch back to #2 and use the combo on it. By this point, #1 should already be dead, or close to dying.
6. Repeat the above, until 2 mobs remain. When 2 mobs remain, I simply alternate combo-ing them without using Flash.

If there's more than one ranged (ie. 3x Servitor Lanterns and 1x Attack Hound in Haukke Manor 2nd chest room):
1. Identify the 2 closest ranged mobs, then use Shield Lob on one, stand between them and use Flash.
2. Perform combo on 1st ranged mob, use Shield Lob on the farthest one, and use Flash.
3. Repeat until the first 2 ranged mobs are dead. Then go for the 3rd ranged mob.
4. Use same one above where I rotate the combo between the 3rd ranged mob and the melee mob.

Seems to work out fine for me now. Thanks for the advice guys!