this game relies too much on instant death attacks to make endgame harder

[Alhanelem]

*IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT*
This thread is NOT to QQ about beating Titan (or any specific mob in particular). Please do NOT post stuff like "oh are you bad or something?". This thread is about discussing a specific game mechanic. If you can't wrap your mind around that, then please, don't post.
*IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT*

now, I understand the primal fights are totally scripted and memorizing the attack patterns and stuff is key, but I feel like too many of the bosses in this game (at all levels) rely too much on the threat of instant guaranteed death to make things hard. Titan for instance, still wouldn't be a walk in the park if you didn't have the bombs do instant death, dps race to avoid instant death, falling to instant (and unrecoverable) death, because he just doles out a ton of damage even without these things. Garuda, Ifrit, and many dungeon bosses all have a "do XYZ thing or you unavoidably die instantly" mechanic.

FFXI didn't really overuse instant death attacks. even the most dangerous attacks could often be survived with enough HP / DR / etc.

This isn't meant as a QQ, but more looking for other's opinions on this issue: Do you think instant death moves are a cheap way to increase difficulty? Or do you think they have their place and there is no problem?

I don't completely mind its existence, I just think it's overused. I think that it is getting picked whenever a dev goes "oh, this isn't hard enough, how can we make it harder?" I'm not complaining that the mechanic exists, only that it seems to be the first thing the devs of many games jump to these days when they can't think of anything else.

[twigglypuff]

i guess its SE's way of gear checking the people running the instance. Also it tests people's rotations. Are you putting out maximum dps? and the such. just imo.

[Aedra]

FFXI didn't really overuse instant death attacks.

Had you tried Salvage or Einherjar back when cap75?

Not only there is no easy to spot warning, there's so little time frame with the worst user-friendly information given via combat text..

[Suirieko]

All part of the challenge. I think it's fine.

[Sabi]

It is really uncreative and boring.

[CyrilLucifer]

Had you tried Salvage or Einherjar back when cap75?

Not only there is no easy to spot warning, there's so little time frame with the worst user-friendly information given via combat text..

I really disagree on both accounts. Salvage had ways to avoid all instant-death attacks. You had the needles-type attack, which was mitigated by having people stand within range, the charm, one was blinkable and didn't instant-death at all, just stun, and the last was nerfable by killing the gears before they teleported.

Einherjar was /kneel and getting the hell out of range. Odin himself wasn't bad, though some of the third tier bosses could hurt.

Now, if anything, SE went instant-death crazy with the addition of Voidwatch.

[Renik]

Well, i miss those hard battles where the danger comes from the mosnter itself, not XY attacks and Z positioning, the contentent isn't really hard, just hard to learn everything on the first attempt, once we have a good database (like a wiki) everyone will be able to everything on the first-second attempt.

[Melcaiah]

Scripted Battles - exactly what WoWarcraft was which is what this game models more then any other even FFXI.

I love the danger of the monster itself, but i'd love to see a healthy mix of the two. Dodging crap makes it so people can't be lazy about what they are doing. But my problem is for instance, after learning the abilities and how to dodge it, I just generally don't fear the monster anymore. Everquest? Nagafen? Vox? Level 50 cap? Still fear it 14 years later.... WoW? Deathwing? 2nd attempt kill, no fear.

[Zumi]

FFXI almost everything was a tank and spank with no real danger of dying ever. FFXIV the battles are actually harder because you have to avoid stuff. If they made it so stuff didn't kill you and you could easily recover from mistakes then it wouldn't be as challenging.

[Darkillumina]

Square Enix has always been guilty of using gimmicky mechanics to make up for poor fight/content design in their MMO's.

In 1.2x, hate reset was used by almost everything in the game as an artificial way to make things harder. Some bosses even spammed it. Ever had 6 animal instincts in a row? I have. Not fun. This was back when we had a non-GCD battle system and everything was on a Independent cool-down. In FFXI, well take your pick. Speed Runs and garbage drop rates were also a staple of 1.2x in order to artificially prolong the content. Rivenroad hard was well-designed for the most part, but had gimmicky mechanics as well. During one run, right after Nael's first Mega Flare, he decided to do two iron curtains in a row. We could do nothing but laugh.

People are complaining about Amdapor Keep grinding. That sh*t is nothing compared to running AV and CC 10000000 times hoping you get a single darklight piece to drop to your inventory. Hamlet is also a non-battle example. Grinding out the seals was a pain in the ass and was the entry barrier to whomever wanted to do the relic quest. It wasn't hard, it was tedious.

Of course, this is pretty much what happens in most MMO's but SE is particularly guilty of this.