Get rid of the prices in market search

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

Havent read all of this but I agree whole heartedly with the OP.

[Ryoshi]

Havent read all of this but I agree whole heartedly with the OP.

I'd suggest reading the whole thing because several people have brought up several very good reasons why the OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Xenor]

And several people have brought up points that have been repeatedly destroyed throughout the thread, which is why I just skipped over MarkH's post entirely.

There's an interesting experiment on this taking place on my server right now. People are flooding the market wards with their trash NQ crab bows so none of the HQ bows are appearing in the price list because there's more than 20 NQs. I'm not yet selling these bows so I can't really comment on how it's working, however I hope to have some experience within a couple of weeks.

But as it's a new page and people on here generally don't read more than the first post and last page of threads I'll once again say I am currently more in favour of reducing supply of items to meet demand rather than removing prices. Make all raw materials 4-5 times as rare and there won't be a problem any more. You won't undercut my logs and ores because my logs and ores will be selling as fast as I put them up. The fun thing is you won't know how to price them unless you're experienced in the market because you guys don't want price history either. But anything that's a disadvantage to you when selling is an advantage to me.

[Ryoshi]

You are literally trying to solve a problem that only exists in your head. Yes, there are certainly problems with the retainer/market ward system, but removing features or further introducing hurdles to doing business will only make it worse. You've had this explained to you several times by several people throughout this thread.

EDIT: Look at the number of likes my last post in this thread got compared to your OP. You just haven't thought this through and are adamant on your stance despite people trying to explain to you why you're wrong.

[MarkH]

The only thing destroyed by your argument is your credibility. Your last few replies (asking us “do you think people care about losing 1000-2000 by undercutting 10-20 gil”) basically amount to saying “I don’t think so!”. Your counterargument demonstrates a complete and utter lack of understanding of the point many people are making.

No one thinks that by undercutting you for 10-20 gil a piece, it suddenly make the price acceptable. This battle is not between you and the undercutter, but rather a battle with you and those undercutters on one side struggling against the market force on the other. A market force that seek to stabilize the price at an equilibrium where demand meets supply.

Repeating the mantra that you have “destroyed” our argument doesn’t make it true. Even you must believe that by now, hence your new proposal. A supply side solution Enron tried to pull back in the 90s, which caused quite a bit of a problem. The same problem that we face now with the sudden shortage of food.

Your proposal will have little effect on the crafter that are already making those weapon and other tools. Let's look at your Crab Bow for example, the only lumber and ore require is 2 oak lumber, 1 iron ingot, 1 bronze nugget, 1 bronze wire (for Oak Composite Bow) and 1 iron spike, which mean that with 1 oak log, 4 iron ore, 4 bronze ore (+item from monster), you can make 2 crab bows. What it will affect most if those still skilling up, those who actually need hundreds upon hundreds of logs.

Being discourage by the scarcity and difficulty of obtaining these material, it is very much possible that new player won't skill up any craft all together, lowering the demand for log. Unfortunately people who are still skilling up, who have a lot of desire for logs do not have very much gil to afford the log if price are too high, and those who already have finished skilling up and can afford to buy them, whatever the price, doesn't have the desire for very many logs at all. (But of course this barrier to trade will benefit you! Mr. R50 Carpenter!)

And, because unlike in the real world where commodity are truly limited and the barrier to entering the mining and logging business are quite substantial, there is nothing to stop people to flock to harvest these ores and logs if they seem to be selling well (I've seen rank 15 botanist harvesting for Raven Black Moss near Camp Dragon Head). Again, the market forces are working against you.

This will not also address the lack of demand. Currently in the game, with very few perishable resources, once a character have bought a weapon or armor, that character forever is no longer part of the demand for the good. So unless a new character join your server, or someone decides to start leveling a new job, your market is forever shrinking.

Of course, it is quite hard to accurately perdict what would happens with a sudden change in the quantity of supply. But I would like to give you an example in the Luminium Ore, to show that by simply being rare will not make an item sell fast or at a high price.

The Luminium Ore in FFXI was as hard, if not harder, to find than the Khroma Ore. They both drop from the same ISNM at about the same rate, but at least Khroma is minable from Mount Zhalyom, which is infinitely more mineable than Halvung where Luminium drop. Yet for years, one sell for 500000 while the other 3000. Luminium ore weren’t completely useless either, like lumber and ore in XIV, it can be use for skilling up craft (even if the end product isn't of very much use) and yet the price did not raise until SE introduce new and much more desirable use for the ore. With the new update and sudden increase in demand, the price for Luminium ore jump from 3000 to over 50000 in a few months.

I apologize to everyone for this wall of text, I know it won't do much good and you-know-who will reply with an ever more creative "I don't think so!" again, thinking that repeating it over and over to every counter-argument will somehow "destroy" them and validate his.

[Rentahamster]

The only thing destroyed by your argument is your credibility. Your last few replies (asking us “do you think people care about losing 1000-2000 by undercutting 10-20 gil”) basically amount to saying “I don’t think so!”. Your counterargument demonstrates a complete and utter lack of understanding of the point many people are making.

Well said.

The way to economic prosperity is less arbitrary controls and hurdles that get in the way of what players want to do. Let the market be driven by real knowledge, not by uncertainty.

[AngryNixon]

The market should be driven by a Marxist central command style economy and comrade Rentalhamster should be placed in charge of it.

[VydarrTyr]

And several people have brought up points that have been repeatedly destroyed throughout the thread, which is why I just skipped over MarkH's post entirely.

So despite the fact that you admitted some time ago that the community is clearly against your suggestion, you think you've "destroyed" the other arguments. I suppose everyone opposes your idea because your arguments are so strong that everyone is intimidated?

And who are these "several people"? I don't see anyone here arguing in favor of your suggestion other than you.

While I'm sure Xenor would prefer that Takeshi not read the thread, I would encourage him to make up his own mind about who's got the better side of the argument.

. . . I'll once again say I am currently more in favour of reducing supply of items to meet demand rather than removing prices. Make all raw materials 4-5 times as rare and there won't be a problem any more. You won't undercut my logs and ores because my logs and ores will be selling as fast as I put them up.

Again, this shows a remarkable ignorance when it comes to simple economics. How would SE reduce the supply of goods? Reduce the drop rates? That doesn't actually reduce the supply. It just increases the amount of time it takes to gather the same number of materials. So you'll have to spend 4-5 times as long to get the same number of logs, but the supply will be the same. You wouldn't be reducing the supply, you'd just be reducing the rewards for every other DoL and DoW, so apparently the rewards for Xenor can be artificially high.

The only way to actually decrease the supply would be if it were only possible to have a certain number of yew logs in existence at a certain time. So if there were 1000 yew logs in existence, DoL would be unable to gather yew logs no matter how many times they tried. Which would make it impossible -- or at least unprofitable -- to level DoL. And then people wouldn't be able to level their DoH because there weren't any logs available. So it would make it impossible -- or at least unprofitable -- to level DoH.

So this suggestion boils down to whether you want to make it impossible to for everyone else to level their jobs, just so Xenor can keep charging really high prices for his goods. This is Final Fantasy XIV, not Final Fantasy Xenor. There's an entire community out there besides just Xenor.

The fun thing is you won't know how to price them unless you're experienced in the market because you guys don't want price history either.

Or unless people walk around the market wards and look at the price other people are selling for. Or unless you have access to the internet. Because sites like Yellow Gremlin have a built-in "price history."

So removing prices will just force people to use outside resources, which will take more time, but it won't reduce people to being helpless idiots.

But anything that's a disadvantage to you when selling is an advantage to me.

And that's the crux of this entire dispute. You only want what's good for you. You don't want the wards to work efficiently. You don't want the game to be easy to play. You don't want other people to be rewarded for their work. You want it to be as difficult and unrewarding as possible, because that's the only way you can charge artificially inflated prices. You want to make gobs of money for yourself, and screw everything and everyone else.

I disagree. And it seems like most other people disagree with you, too.

[Reika]

I'm glad people buy stuff that I put in the wards.. had to do a little undercutting .

[Layander]

I tend to agree with the original poster but I may have a different reason, people who find items at high level and have no idea what they are worth are selling level 50 gear for less than the price of level 10 gear, on my server a cavalier chainmail is going for 5000 gil thats one quest at level 5. Come on?