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  1. #1
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    Mar 2011
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    this game relies too much on instant death attacks to make endgame harder

    *IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT*
    This thread is NOT to QQ about beating Titan (or any specific mob in particular). Please do NOT post stuff like "oh are you bad or something?". This thread is about discussing a specific game mechanic. If you can't wrap your mind around that, then please, don't post.
    *IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT*

    now, I understand the primal fights are totally scripted and memorizing the attack patterns and stuff is key, but I feel like too many of the bosses in this game (at all levels) rely too much on the threat of instant guaranteed death to make things hard. Titan for instance, still wouldn't be a walk in the park if you didn't have the bombs do instant death, dps race to avoid instant death, falling to instant (and unrecoverable) death, because he just doles out a ton of damage even without these things. Garuda, Ifrit, and many dungeon bosses all have a "do XYZ thing or you unavoidably die instantly" mechanic.

    FFXI didn't really overuse instant death attacks. even the most dangerous attacks could often be survived with enough HP / DR / etc.

    This isn't meant as a QQ, but more looking for other's opinions on this issue: Do you think instant death moves are a cheap way to increase difficulty? Or do you think they have their place and there is no problem?

    I don't completely mind its existence, I just think it's overused. I think that it is getting picked whenever a dev goes "oh, this isn't hard enough, how can we make it harder?" I'm not complaining that the mechanic exists, only that it seems to be the first thing the devs of many games jump to these days when they can't think of anything else.


    (47)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 09-15-2013 at 06:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    twigglypuff's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Character
    Twigglypuff Reaper
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    i guess its SE's way of gear checking the people running the instance. Also it tests people's rotations. Are you putting out maximum dps? and the such. just imo.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Aedra's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    117
    Character
    Aedra Laevatein
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    FFXI didn't really overuse instant death attacks.
    Had you tried Salvage or Einherjar back when cap75?

    Not only there is no easy to spot warning, there's so little time frame with the worst user-friendly information given via combat text..
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    CyrilLucifer's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    1,393
    Character
    Holy Emmerololth
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedra View Post
    Had you tried Salvage or Einherjar back when cap75?

    Not only there is no easy to spot warning, there's so little time frame with the worst user-friendly information given via combat text..
    I really disagree on both accounts. Salvage had ways to avoid all instant-death attacks. You had the needles-type attack, which was mitigated by having people stand within range, the charm, one was blinkable and didn't instant-death at all, just stun, and the last was nerfable by killing the gears before they teleported.

    Einherjar was /kneel and getting the hell out of range. Odin himself wasn't bad, though some of the third tier bosses could hurt.

    Now, if anything, SE went instant-death crazy with the addition of Voidwatch.
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Aedra's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    117
    Character
    Aedra Laevatein
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer View Post
    I really disagree on both accounts. Salvage had ways to avoid all instant-death attacks.
    It's just a different type of avoid instant dead. Tell me about it then if your WHM can't paralyna SAM/NIN tank after boss discharge within 1 second and sam tank got killed by boss since can't cast utsusemi.

    Oh wait.. maybe you didn't use SAM/NIN tank for a full run and only go for last boss and use more than 6-7 ppl.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    3,965
    Character
    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedra View Post
    Had you tried Salvage or Einherjar back when cap75?

    Not only there is no easy to spot warning, there's so little time frame with the worst user-friendly information given via combat text..
    This. I guess Alhanelem forgot that FFXI has ALWAYS been about avoiding damage due to being hit for ridiculous amounts. Hence the obsession with Utsusemi, invincibility temp items for Voidwatch, not to mention stupid OP (in an MMO that cares about balance) things like Perfect Defense...
    (2)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)

  7. #7
    Player
    Tupsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    3,149
    Character
    Odsarzol Que
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedra View Post
    Had you tried Salvage or Einherjar back when cap75?
    Have you? Einherjar was about crowd control and Salvage was mechanic based and normal monsters were scaled to the fact you were naked for a chunk of the dungeon run. None of the bosses instant killed you unless you flat out sucked or were a taru with almost no HP lol. Now Charm...that's a different story.
    (0)

  8. #8
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    Mar 2011
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    4,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Tupsi View Post
    Have you? Einherjar was about crowd control and Salvage was mechanic based and normal monsters were scaled to the fact you were naked for a chunk of the dungeon run. None of the bosses instant killed you unless you flat out sucked or were a taru with almost no HP lol. Now Charm...that's a different story.
    I think he's referring to Zentetsuken, but that's the only truly instant death move I can think of. Maybe one of the other bosses has a doom ability. It's there, it's just not used (in my opinion) excessively.

    Remember: the question here is: "Do you think instant death is overused in this game, and/or do you think it is a necessary/effective difficulty mechanic?

    and I"m not talking about high damage AoE, I'm talking about stuff that's basically guaranteed to oneshot everyone (or everyone except the tank with 3x the HP of everyone else, which may as well be everyone since the tank will subsequently die)
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 09-15-2013 at 12:28 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Suirieko's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Suirieko Mizukoshi
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    All part of the challenge. I think it's fine.
    (5)
    Suirieko Mizukoshi of Excalibur Lamia


  10. #10
    Player
    Sabi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    93
    Character
    Sabi Verdantes
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Carpenter Lv 50
    It is really uncreative and boring.
    (38)

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