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  1. #51
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Imagine giving every boss a Limit Break gauge that players can see.
    This gauge charges up when the boss hits you, and if the gauge is filled, it will unleash its massive damage AoE. Make it really powerfull, but not OHKO automatically.
    Against Titan, you could delay the Earthen Fury by dodging most attacks, destroying rocks than would damage their prisoner (And so filling the limit gauge), you could save your limit break to protect you from the blast or recover after it, etc...

    This is only a suggestion that could keep the fights interesting and, for me, somehow "fairer".

    You could also make the limit gauge fill differently for some bosses. Odin, for example, is known for his "Zantetsuken after time limit" like in FFIV or FFVIII. Bahamut and his "5, 4, 3, 2, 1...MEGA-FLARE" is another trademark sequence. Now, every primal does that
    (3)

  2. #52
    Player
    Tanoshii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    63
    Character
    Tanoshii Britannia
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 55
    Quote Originally Posted by Melcaiah View Post
    Scripted Battles - exactly what WoWarcraft was which is what this game models more then any other even FFXI.

    I love the danger of the monster itself, but i'd love to see a healthy mix of the two. Dodging crap makes it so people can't be lazy about what they are doing. But my problem is for instance, after learning the abilities and how to dodge it, I just generally don't fear the monster anymore. Everquest? Nagafen? Vox? Level 50 cap? Still fear it 14 years later.... WoW? Deathwing? 2nd attempt kill, no fear.
    So you did the content which was meant for casuals instead of hardmode versions and you complain it was too easy? Sounds like you are just a bad player. WoW has by far some of the best boss fight mechanics in any MMO.

    Also, every aspect of PvE is scripted. I have no idea where you are even going with that statement.
    (2)

  3. #53
    Player
    AreeSoothsayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    110
    Character
    Aree Soothsayer
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Casual vs Challenge. Casual you get nice red warning signs painted on the ground. Those who want a challenge? None. All they gotta do is add a little option to the client and a flag showing who plays casual and who plays challenge. Add it to the DF so those who play one way or the other group together.

    (Personally I'd be in the Challenge catagory, it gets boring when red warning points out how and where an enemy will attack.)
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,948
    Also, every aspect of PvE is scripted. I have no idea where you are even going with that statement.
    Behavior of normal mobs in the world is usually semi random (doesnt use the same attacks in the same order every time). In FFXI, even most hnm did not have a hard and fast scripted attack pattern, outside of certain things happening at HP or in some cases time triggers.
    (2)

  5. #55
    Player
    luciferbelmont's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Lenneth Valhalla
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Gotta love new gen gamers who weren't around in the NES and atari era.
    (2)

  6. #56
    Player
    Alcyon_Densetsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    331
    Character
    Alcyon Densetsu
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    I, for one, LOVE instant death attacks. Old school gamer, been there done that, and the idea that all games, all genres must have some form of HP bar is somewhat strange, borderline alien to me. I mean, in pretty much every FPS these days, there's a HP bar... So when I'm head-shot, I don't die instantly? WTH?! Ok, that feels weird to me. It's cool, I like feeling like a god from time to time, but many a game's just too easy because of that . Mario, old school, a simple turtle touched you, and you died. Plain and simple.

    We used to have instant deaths and check points or "stages"/levels. Now we have health bars and medikits, inventories instead of "lives". Times have changed, but I'm not sure it feels that much rewarding for a player.

    It's true RPGs have always been different, since they're primarily based on health bars and damage mitigation through stats and items, and it's also true that, conversely, the lack of a HP bar (equivalent to instant death mechanics) always had a more "action" flavour. Yet I welcome RPGs with some form of action management, such as modern, 3D RPGs, including MMOs of course, and when it's about dodging, well of course some of these attacks should kill you instantly. That makes mobs feared, powerful, more of a challenge. It makes winning feel more like a real achievement, where you know you either dodged perfectly, or used the right skill at the right time to protect you-- I do love a good shielding skill, a "super move" as we used to call'em. Hyper-damage, or temporary invulnerability, these kinds of things. I love limit breaks, I love instant death. That's what real combat is/feels like, too.

    Moreover, instant deaths mechanics have a clear consequence: it negates gear differences. We're all equal when facing death: there's no hardcore farmer, no newbie, just your ability to know a fight, know an enemy, and how to win against all odds. I remember this quote from Civilization, which pretty much sums up the whole bushido, and fits right into my gaming vision:

    "Bushido is realized in the presence of death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. There is not other reasoning."
    --Yamamoto Tsunetomo
    (0)
    Last edited by Alcyon_Densetsu; 09-15-2013 at 10:43 AM.
    “Focus on the journey, not the destination.
    Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it.”

  7. #57
    Player
    Balaur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    154
    Character
    Balaur Bondoc
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin View Post
    Yes... that's it. As a customer, you are OBLIGATED to come up with an alternative for anything you are unhappy with. Despite not being developers, we are tasked with improving the game from a design perspective. get out of here with that. I absolutely hate those "Can you come up with something better" comments. Last I checked, the OP is not getting paid to do so.
    Working customer service foir the last 15 years, I can tell you that there is precious little a service provider can do to an upset customer when a customer cannot or refuses to qualify his complaint. When a customer complains that thing X is a problem, the very first thought is "why is that a problem?" followed by "how can we make this better?"

    Without these questions, it is nigh impossible to formulate a solution to the customer's complaint. This is usually why stores just give customer's their money back, provide coupons, etc. It is the only thing they can think of when the customer refuses or cannot respond to the queries about improving anything. And unfortunately, even if the customer would have a solution to the issue, it runs counter to the service provider's interests.

    Old man walks into a store, and spies an endcap of canned goods, and complains that the canned goods are problematic. He does not say why. Perhaps he perceives the arrangement precarious? But without further information, the store cannot respond adequately to the old man's complaint, and so attempts to mollify him through either direct questioning, deflection via conversation, or, more likely, by throwing a little extra money at him.

    The design of a store's endcap, the arrangement of cans on a shelf, is often designed outside the store, and in this there lies the real difficulty when dealing with complaints like the OP's: The mechanic is working as intended, and to solve the problem involved in prolonged battles. To prevent the content from being merely tedious and repetitive, as in the same sequence of Tetris blocks falling at the same speed for 20 minutes, the content involves mechanics that force responsiveness in a variety of ways and with the requirement of "deal with it or die."

    Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that this system has worked in MMORPGs for nearly two decades, and attempts to deviate from this require a distinct combat system, such as Monster Hunter's, in which the various moves against you are merely strong, but force player skill to higher ends. The preference of the community also tends to be towards a system for party play that forces these mechanics to the sidelines, and as such that "true action combat" must be mitigated.

    The holy trinity is at fault here, but this is the preferred method by which MMO players wish to play (GW2 started this way despite arguing against it, but then devolved into all DPS, negating many weapon sets in typical combat), and that means you need aggro tables, ways of dealing with aggro, and ways to manage damage. This forces monsters to be defensive against this, and thus extending combat while making things fairly hectic for the player(s). Hence, instant death mechanics, which makes the game "exciting." Every MMO has them, even the ones with "true action combat."

    So, I reiterate: To state that there is a problem, one must find evidence that there is a problem, rather than as with the OP that one person has A problem with a system. To have a problem, if there is one, one must have a solution. You can work at this from another angle: If there is a way to build a better mousetrap, in this manner, than one can say that the previous version is not as good, and the "problem" is one of perspective rather than true error. But I say that the error lies in the expectation of the player, either for not correctly describing his issue, or with what, precisely, there is a "problem" with.
    (2)

  8. #58
    Player
    Cluebilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    231
    Character
    Roksha Alkdnar
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    I don't think it's bad. But it shouldn't be overused. You know, mix it up a bit here and there. If you just start adding it to every fight it just starts to piss people off I'd think and reeks of laziness to some degree.
    (0)

  9. #59
    Player
    Xuri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Xuri Elund
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 90
    Instant Death attacks are there because in combat ressurection and even instant-res is available.
    (0)

  10. #60
    Player
    Rydin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,821
    Character
    Nyris Reach
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Balaur View Post
    snip
    Your analogy is flawed. The OP is commenting on the product itself, not how it is arranged in the store (which would be very trivial to take issue with)

    Its more like eating at a restaurant, taking one bite and saying "This food tastes awful." Then you abruptly leave the restaurant.
    At no point are you obligated to go into detail about how the food specifically tastes. You aren't required to fill out an exit questionnaire. Your noted disapproval is enough.
    (2)

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