Thread: [Guide] Paladin Tanking Compendium 2.0

I'm curious, I haven't seen anyone even testing it with PLD's, but where's the numbers for dex benefits? There's quite a bit of a mitigation advantage from hitting certain dex walls for Warriors (from what I've been seeing on their stat analysis), has there been any look into the benefit/cost for us PLD's yet?

Originally Posted by ByakkoSeven

I'm curious, I haven't seen anyone even testing it with PLD's, but where's the numbers for dex benefits? There's quite a bit of a mitigation advantage from hitting certain dex walls for Warriors (from what I've been seeing on their stat analysis), has there been any look into the benefit/cost for us PLD's yet?

Show me a piece of gear on the gear list that has dex and you'll find your answer.

Hey Pixel, any chance you'll add consumables to the guide? I've found two googledocs on food stuffs, but it would be nice if you'd have just a summary here as a reference for the future. Ideally it would be tier'd by the amount of Vit you need to get the most of the chosen nom. Maybe later I'll look into this myself.

Also: what about potions? I've honestly must say I haven't used any yet since I've finished leveling, and I think that's my mistake, especially since we're headed to Coil ATM. I've defeated Titan yesterday :3

EDIT: Made a short list myself in the end. It's sorted by the vitality you need to have to reach the full potential of the chosen dish. It's all only NQ, I didn't manage to find reliable data on HQ pieces, sorry. Clearly the best choice right now is La Noscean Toast HQ, which BTW should be less expensive than the Finger Sandwich. HQ Eft Steak Gives you 1 more point of Vitality, but you lose 23 points of parry - not worth it in my opinion:

Finger Sandwich
Vitality 2% (Max: 15) 750
Parry 3% (Max: 22) 734
Accuracy 2% (Max: 9)

Finger Sandwich HQ
Vitality 3% (Max: 19) 634
Parry 4% (Max: 27) 675
Accuracy 2% (Max: 9)

Eft Steak
Vitality 3% (Max: 12) 400
Accuracy 2% (Max: 8)
Skill Speed 4% (Max: 21)

Eft Steak HQ
Vitality 4% (Max: 15) 375
Accuracy 2% (Max: 10)
Skill Speed 5% (Max: 26)

La Noscean Toast
Vitality 3% (Max: 11) 367
Parry 4% (Max: 18) 450
Accuracy 2% (Max: 7)

La Noscean Toast HQ
Vitality 4% (Max: 14) 350
Parry 5% (Max: 23) 460
Accuracy 2% (Max: 7)

***

Knight's Bread
Vitality 4% (Max: 8) 200
Parry 6% (Max: 13) 217
Skill Speed 2% (Max: 5)

Acorn Cookie
Vitality 4% (Max: 6) 150
Parry 6% (Max: 10) 167
Accuracy 2% (Max: 4)

Cornbread
Vitality 4% (Max: 6) 150
Parry 7% (Max: 10) 143
Skill Speed 2% (Max: 4)

HQ Data taken from libra eorzea, courtesy of goodfolks at xivpads.com!

Originally Posted by Viray

Hey Pixel, any chance you'll add consumables to the guide? I've found two googledocs on food stuffs, but it would be nice if you'd have just a summary here as a reference for the future. Ideally it would be tier'd by the amount of Vit you need to get the most of the chosen nom. Maybe later I'll look into this myself.

Also: what about potions? I've honestly must say I haven't used any yet since I've finished leveling, and I think that's my mistake, especially since we're headed to Coil ATM. I've defeated Titan yesterday :3

EDIT: Made a short list myself in the end. It's sorted by the vitality you need to have to reach the full potential of the chosen dish. It's all only NQ, I didn't manage to find reliable data on HQ pieces, sorry. Clearly the best choice right now is La Noscean Toast HQ, which BTW should be less expensive than the Finger Sandwich. HQ Eft Steak Gives you 1 more point of Vitality, but you lose 23 points of parry - not worth it in my opinion:

Finger Sandwich
Vitality 2% (Max: 15) 750
Parry 3% (Max: 22) 734
Accuracy 2% (Max: 9)

Finger Sandwich HQ
Vitality 3% (Max: 19) 634
Parry 4% (Max: 27) 675
Accuracy 2% (Max: 9)

Eft Steak
Vitality 3% (Max: 12) 400
Accuracy 2% (Max: 8)
Skill Speed 4% (Max: 21)

Eft Steak HQ
Vitality 4% (Max: 15) 375
Accuracy 2% (Max: 10)
Skill Speed 5% (Max: 26)

La Noscean Toast
Vitality 3% (Max: 11) 367
Parry 4% (Max: 18) 450
Accuracy 2% (Max: 7)

La Noscean Toast HQ
Vitality 4% (Max: 14) 350
Parry 5% (Max: 23) 460
Accuracy 2% (Max: 7)

***

Knight's Bread
Vitality 4% (Max: 8) 200
Parry 6% (Max: 13) 217
Skill Speed 2% (Max: 5)

Acorn Cookie
Vitality 4% (Max: 6) 150
Parry 6% (Max: 10) 167
Accuracy 2% (Max: 4)

Cornbread
Vitality 4% (Max: 6) 150
Parry 7% (Max: 10) 143
Skill Speed 2% (Max: 4)

HQ Data taken from libra eorzea, courtesy of goodfolks at xivpads.com!

Amazing contribution! Gave you a shout out in the updates section. When I reordered the food to fit into the stat weight formula I noticed there was a conflict on what you thought was better. The main thing I can convey is threat is very important, almost more sore than "the chance to mitigate" (parry). You can not parry spells. So the way I see it is you can generate threat at all times, you can use EH at all times, but you can only parry if its a melee attack. Due to the mechanics the food is listed the way that it is. Consistency over chance.

Originally Posted by Viray

Thank you, I'm glad I could help! I've got one question though - you've listed Finger Sandwich HQ as a first choice, are you aware that you'll probably not be able to get the full buff that it can give you even in ilvl90 gear? You'd need 634 Vitality for that. Or am I missing something...?

Theres a footnote stating you need that much. If you don't have that much then move down the list. Unfortunately the next one has even steeper requirements making the next best one Eft Steak HQ.

Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Overall pretty solid guide, while i use slightly different approaches, not going to quibble over details. I would like to address two moves you glossed over or even called useless: Shield swipe and fracture. Note: My experience is as main tank through turn 4.
Note: both skills are only useful in long fights (titan, coil 1, etc maybe ak final with a low dps group?) Though once you way out gear the content, you can safely use these even on shorter bosses like those in CM just to help shave those extra seconds off the fight.

On why you should use shield swipe:

Shield swipe is only 40 tp, so its actually less tp than you earn in the time it takes to use. It does not interrupt your ROH combo and does up your dps. You can use it twice without stopping your combo (combo would time out during third use). Because of this, using it when ever its up will both raise your max dps and prolong the life of your tp pool. Realistically, in these long fights, bards aren't going to paeon you as they'll use their mana to ballad.

How shield swipe affects enmity: its an enmity loss. Any gcd you use it, you are lowering your enmity potential. Therefore, you can only use it in long fights where you'll find enmity actually isnt' an issue. Once you have done a few roh rotations on a mob (keeping SW and COS on cd), you'll have a huge lead (except maybe during the first phase of titan when he is spamming stomps, but you'll only be in that phase for a meaningful amount of time if you are farming limit break, in which case you can safely ask for a paeon and you wouldn't want to up dps anyway). There is an arguement that it can be a long term enmity bonus (you have more tp longer for more total roh combos before reaching tp floor), but, that would take a lot of math to prove or disprove.

I know this sounds strange, "but i'm a paladin, I live to earn enmity" you say. Think of it this way, your'e actually there to make the fight as easy as possible for your team. If you already have a huge hate lead, does your group need you to build more enmity? Or would it help the group more to up your dps and shorten the fight a little? Its actually pretty great on turn 1.

Fracture: Same principle. Fracture is a dps increase but a threat decrease. For up time, you need to use it after every other roh combo, though shield swipes will push its uptime down. Unfortuantely it does stop your combo, so you'll just have to live with that and let it have down time.

These two moves are about refining your play, about getting that last little bit out of what you can do.


To those asking about mercy stroke: Even if it is a minor increase in your damage, it has no opportunity cost. It uses up no resources and is off GCD. The question isn't "how useful is it" but "why not use it." You should want to bring the absolute maximum contribution to the group you can, so why leave a little damage on the table?


OP: Final note about your cover macro. Add a /ac "Cover" <tt> line. Makes it much faster to use, as you dont' ahve to target the party member, it'll just auto cover the person with hate (and it can't go off on yourself so you can't waste it that way). Leave in the <t> line for manual targeting of course.

This guide expects your DPS to perform extremely well, in line with the math that is underlying the entire game. When a black mage is DPSing against you, both in i90 gear, he will have to eventually have to wait to dps due to procs, you picking up new mobs, and so forth. What you are saying is luxury and not going to make or break a fight. You losing aggro will break the fight though. Your job is to gain aggro as quickly as possible on a mob, raise the enmity ceiling as high as possible, all while not taking very much damage. You do not have to do any damage as long as the DPS are doing it for you. This is a team game, be a team player. A DPS's job is to do as much damage as possible without taking aggro or dying. You trying to do damage is stepping on their toes and underperforming your task. Classical tanks live by the quality "Do little damage, take little damage."

I don't think anyone ever questioned the use of mercy stroke. There is absolutely no reason to not use it on cooldown.

As for the Cover macro information. Thanks I have been looking for that target type for a long time. In ffxi it was <st>. I will update accordingly.

Originally Posted by Pixelshader

This guide expects your DPS to perform extremely well, in line with the math that is underlying the entire game. When a black mage is DPSing against you, both in i90 gear, he will have to eventually have to wait to dps due to procs, you picking up new mobs, and so forth. What you are saying is luxury and not going to make or break a fight. You losing aggro will break the fight though. Your job is to gain aggro as quickly as possible on a mob, raise the enmity ceiling as high as possible, all while not taking very much damage. You do not have to do any damage as long as the DPS are doing it for you. This is a team game, be a team player. A DPS's job is to do as much damage as possible without taking aggro or dying. You trying to do damage is stepping on their toes and underperforming your task. Classical tanks live by the quality "Do little damage, take little damage."

Exactly, its a team game, bring every point of contribution you can to help the team.

And I explicitly stated this was only for stable fights against a single target where your hate is actually balanced against the healers not the dps. Also, pld threat is immensely consistent where as all dps other than smn is proc based, over time in equal gear with equal play you will gain insurmountable leads. Not to mention, quelling strikes on a blm / brd / smn will consistently give you accumulating leads.

Also, increasing your dps in this mannor does nothing to increase the damage you are recieving, I see no point in the "do little take little" when you can "do more take little." Its a team game, bring every piont of edge to your team you can.

Again, at the point you are using things like fracture and shield swipe on coil bosses, you should know the class well enough to know when you've got more hate than you need. There is no functional difference in a 10% hate lead or a 90% hate lead. And, pld dps, while low, does stack up over several minutes.

Besides, we've all wiped to bosses with 1%. Be that one 1%.