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  1. #31
    Player
    ChriskoOnAnotherLevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Chris Kyo
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiteless View Post
    So PLD tanks better and does pretty much the same damage when they need to. Good to know that WAR is obsolete in pretty much every function.
    This thread has been done many times.

    Summary:
    Pld takes less damage before CDs even come into the equation.
    Pld's CDs just out right blow War's out of the water.
    Warriors self healing in relation to damage recieved is a tiny drop in the bucket unless stacked with multiple CDs making it unreliable.
    Pld and War dps is so close that it is insignificant.
    (0)

  2. #32
    Player
    Kunkka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    40
    Character
    Kunkka Ironprice
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hachiko View Post
    TEXT
    But the thing is, WAR does more than 5-10% more than PLD. berserk is more than a 40% damage increase (I'd say 45%ish based on my experience with inner beast heals). berserk is more than a 9% increase in damage. Berserk is better than fight or flight. Pacification is not 5 seconds of no dps if you are good. There is no cross class skill worth having over internal release(Mantra? Please). From my experience, the gap between warrior and dps classes is smaller than the gap between warrior and PLD.

    There is something wrong with your analysis. The only way to get accurate results would be to perform the "ideal" dps rotations for each class and record the potency/damage for each. For example, the rotation I use to begin a dps phase packs 2090 potency into 1 berserk. Your calculation say that should be ~1600. Compare that to a PLD which would do ~1300+sword oath potency during that time.

    Warrior's have issues, but dps isn't one of them.
    (1)

  3. #33
    Player
    Sazazazenko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Sasami Sasasegawa
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    I just tested this on a target dummy using identical gear on both classes (Ifrit weapon, AF1 and a few Darklight pieces) and identical stat distribution (+30 VIT). For PLD I used the Rage of Halone combo instead of Riot Blade. I hit the dummy for around ~100 seconds each, basically using Fight or Flight/Berserk at the start and stopping when they came off cooldown.

    These were the results
    PLD: 134.11
    WAR: 133.84

    Make your own conclusions.
    (1)

  4. #34
    Player
    ogopogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    60
    Character
    Ohthere Blackthorn
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sazazazenko View Post
    I just tested this on a target dummy using identical gear on both classes (Ifrit weapon, AF1 and a few Darklight pieces) and identical stat distribution (+30 VIT). For PLD I used the Rage of Halone combo instead of Riot Blade. I hit the dummy for around ~100 seconds each, basically using Fight or Flight/Berserk at the start and stopping when they came off cooldown.

    These were the results
    PLD: 134.11
    WAR: 133.84

    Make your own conclusions.
    What was the rotation you were using on the warrior? No offense but personally I think one the biggest reason why people think warrior do similar if not less damage in an off-tank position than a paladin is because they try to play an warrior like one.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player
    Sazazazenko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Sasami Sasasegawa
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by ogopogo View Post
    What was the rotation you were using on the warrior? No offense but personally I think one the biggest reason why people think warrior do similar if not less damage in an off-tank position than a paladin is because they try to play an warrior like one.
    I tried several different rotations on WAR and got the best results when I kept Storm's Eye debuff up 100% of the time and maximized Fracture uptime without interrupting my combo. I used Butcher's Block combo whenever I was in a situation where I would be able to squeeze it in and still keep Storm's Eye debuff and Fracture up 100% of the time.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sazazazenko; 10-14-2013 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Forgot quotes

  6. #36
    Player
    Gorehound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Sundyrsthal Einundsyn
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sazazazenko View Post
    I just tested this on a target dummy using identical gear on both classes (Ifrit weapon, AF1 and a few Darklight pieces) and identical stat distribution (+30 VIT). For PLD I used the Rage of Halone combo instead of Riot Blade. I hit the dummy for around ~100 seconds each, basically using Fight or Flight/Berserk at the start and stopping when they came off cooldown.

    These were the results
    PLD: 134.11
    WAR: 133.84

    Make your own conclusions.
    Need more info... was this with shield oath and defiance on? Maybe test with them off? We ARE talking off-tank dps. The other guy was parsing 150ish pala dps and 170ish war dps.
    (0)

  7. #37
    Player
    ogopogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    60
    Character
    Ohthere Blackthorn
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorehound View Post
    Need more info... was this with shield oath and defiance on? Maybe test with them off? We ARE talking off-tank dps. The other guy was parsing 150ish pala dps and 170ish war dps.
    He was using Ifrit's axe and mostly AF1 so it's obviously going to be lower, but I agree we need more details. How much potency did he pack into a berserk? Is he using Inner Beast by toggling and how often? What about Internal Release, was he timing it to sync with Berserk? Also he should be alternating BB and SE combos since the 20 potency is much better even if his SE debuff does drops off while he's doing doing the next SE.
    (0)

  8. #38
    Player
    Sazazazenko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Sasami Sasasegawa
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by ogopogo View Post
    He was using Ifrit's axe and mostly AF1 so it's obviously going to be lower, but I agree we need more details. How much potency did he pack into a berserk? Is he using Inner Beast by toggling and how often? What about Internal Release, was he timing it to sync with Berserk? Also he should be alternating BB and SE combos since the 20 potency is much better even if his SE debuff does drops off while he's doing doing the next SE.
    I tested PLD and WAR with Sword Oath and Defiance off respectively. Also, I tested alternating BB and SE combos and got about 2-3 DPS less than I would get maximizing SE debuff uptime. I also didn't use Internal Release as I don't use it for tanking.
    (0)

  9. #39
    Player
    ogopogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    60
    Character
    Ohthere Blackthorn
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sazazazenko View Post
    I tested PLD and WAR with Sword Oath and Defiance off respectively. Also, I tested alternating BB and SE combos and got about 2-3 DPS less than I would get maximizing SE debuff uptime. I also didn't use Internal Release as I don't use it for tanking.
    Have you tried toggling Defiance on with about 4 seconds left on Berserk and Infuriate into Inner Beast? You can toggle Defiance off by the time you cast Heavy swing after the Pacification. Also, how consistent did alternating BB/SE combo lose to maximum SE up time? I get the feeling that 2-3 DPS isn't very significant unless it's very consistent. As for Internal Release, I recommend trying it when you don't need to run Flash. (which I often don't run now a day)
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player
    Sazazazenko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Sasami Sasasegawa
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by ogopogo View Post
    Have you tried toggling Defiance on with about 4 seconds left on Berserk and Infuriate into Inner Beast? You can toggle Defiance off by the time you cast Heavy swing after the Pacification. Also, how consistent did alternating BB/SE combo lose to maximum SE up time? I get the feeling that 2-3 DPS isn't very significant unless it's very consistent. As for Internal Release, I recommend trying it when you don't need to run Flash. (which I often don't run now a day)
    I haven't tried the Infuriate into Inner Beast thing, I'll try it next.

    Simply spamming SE combo and reapplying Fracture whenever it drops gives me around 2 more DPS than alternating BB and SE, consistently. Weaving BB combo in without allowing SE debuff to drop adds like 1 more DPS on top of that.

    Just tested
    Spam SE combo and reapply Fracture: 133.29
    Alternating BB and SE and using Fracture: 131.67

    Edit: I tried using Defiance -> Infuriate -> Inner Beast at the very end of Berserk and turning Defiance off as soon as I could a couple of times until I got the perfect timing and parsed 137.25 DPS with the SE combo / Fracture rotation.
    Edit2: Same thing but using BB instead of SE whenever I can do it without SE debuff or Fracture dropping resulted in 134.58 DPS, so Inner Beast is a marginal DPS increase at best. The difference could be just RNG.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sazazazenko; 10-14-2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Added numbers

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