Tank Classes Off Tank DPS

[Viridiana]

Well, it's not counted in the auto attack damage on my version of xiv app, which is from last week or so. I can't comment on log rep, as I don't have that. I'm also wondering about the numbers posted in the PLD logs. Dividing his damage by his dps gives me a 184 second fight in the 136 dps example. That should be enough time for 24 full rotations, unless I'm missing something. Yet, he only used 21 rotations, and the parser didn't even catch one of his Savage Blades (unless he really did Fast->Rage once). There's a similar problem with the other parse, where the length required to get the numbers to match shows that he's missing rotations.

[ogopogo]

*snip*

I'm guessing this could very well be a problem with the parser since my parse seem to not catch some of my attacks as well. I'm positive that I didn't use BB without Skull Sunder yet I was missing one Skull Sunder in one of my parse. It was one of the reason why we tried to use LogRep but it was having even more trouble. It counted 11 Spirit Within in 2:37 and had 44 counts of Savage blade even though only 35 Fast Blade could be counted. I didn't notice him missing rotation when we did the test where I applied Storm's Eye on the dummy so I'm not sure what's going on there.

EDIT: I manage to find the LogRep parse he did which ended up with 179 dps if you'd like to take a look at that. And I just realized how ridiculous that parse looked. He did over 35 rotation in the span of 159 seconds...

[Viridiana]

Yeah, the parser's all kinds of fun. . .

[aswedishtiger]

MRD owns both by a pretty good margin

/thread

[Kunkka]

TEXT

But the thing is, WAR does more than 5-10% more than PLD. berserk is more than a 40% damage increase (I'd say 45%ish based on my experience with inner beast heals). berserk is more than a 9% increase in damage. Berserk is better than fight or flight. Pacification is not 5 seconds of no dps if you are good. There is no cross class skill worth having over internal release(Mantra? Please). From my experience, the gap between warrior and dps classes is smaller than the gap between warrior and PLD.

There is something wrong with your analysis. The only way to get accurate results would be to perform the "ideal" dps rotations for each class and record the potency/damage for each. For example, the rotation I use to begin a dps phase packs 2090 potency into 1 berserk. Your calculation say that should be ~1600. Compare that to a PLD which would do ~1300+sword oath potency during that time.

Warrior's have issues, but dps isn't one of them.

[PessimiStick]

berserk is more than a 40% damage increase (I'd say 45%ish based on my experience with inner beast heals). berserk is more than a 9% increase in damage. Berserk is better than fight or flight. Pacification is not 5 seconds of no dps if you are good.

1) Berserk gets worse as your gear increases, since it doesn't affect your Weapon Damage (as your weapon gets better, the boost you get from 'zerk becomes less, proportionally).
2) 20/90 = 22.2% uptime. Even if it increased your damage by 45% (which I'm almost positive it does not), that's a 10% overall increase, ignoring the pacification which will cost you at least some damage, even if cleansed.
3) FoF is a flat 9% increase over time, doesn't cost you any damage when it ends, and doesn't require a GCD from your healer.

Best-case, they're about equal, assuming your healer has free time. In most cases, FoF is just plain better.

[Sazazazenko]

I just tested this on a target dummy using identical gear on both classes (Ifrit weapon, AF1 and a few Darklight pieces) and identical stat distribution (+30 VIT). For PLD I used the Rage of Halone combo instead of Riot Blade. I hit the dummy for around ~100 seconds each, basically using Fight or Flight/Berserk at the start and stopping when they came off cooldown.

These were the results
PLD: 134.11
WAR: 133.84

Make your own conclusions.

[ogopogo]

I just tested this on a target dummy using identical gear on both classes (Ifrit weapon, AF1 and a few Darklight pieces) and identical stat distribution (+30 VIT). For PLD I used the Rage of Halone combo instead of Riot Blade. I hit the dummy for around ~100 seconds each, basically using Fight or Flight/Berserk at the start and stopping when they came off cooldown.

These were the results
PLD: 134.11
WAR: 133.84

Make your own conclusions.

What was the rotation you were using on the warrior? No offense but personally I think one the biggest reason why people think warrior do similar if not less damage in an off-tank position than a paladin is because they try to play an warrior like one.

[Sazazazenko]

What was the rotation you were using on the warrior? No offense but personally I think one the biggest reason why people think warrior do similar if not less damage in an off-tank position than a paladin is because they try to play an warrior like one.

I tried several different rotations on WAR and got the best results when I kept Storm's Eye debuff up 100% of the time and maximized Fracture uptime without interrupting my combo. I used Butcher's Block combo whenever I was in a situation where I would be able to squeeze it in and still keep Storm's Eye debuff and Fracture up 100% of the time.