Tank Classes Off Tank DPS

[nguyenmb]

I decided to test this last night

Marauder+weathered axe+heavy swing (150 Potency)= 9-10 Damage
Gladiator+weathered sword+fast blade (150 Potency)= 6-7 Damage

Weapon skill damage seems to be clearly based of the auto-attack damage normalization is not a factor.

Warrior relic+1 is 52.75 auto-attack
Paladin relic+1 is 35.57 auto-attack

So assuming damage calculations for weapon skills use auto-attack damage and do not normalize the damage based on weapon speed as seems to be the case here, the potency calculations from the above post are not even a remotely correct representation of warrior and gladiator DPS.

Has anyone verified this? I keep seeing posts comparing dps by only comparing potency and not factoring in that it seemingly scales off of a single auto attack hit instead of generic weapon dps.

[Ruminate]

Has anyone verified this? I keep seeing posts comparing dps by only comparing potency and not factoring in that it seemingly scales off of a single auto attack hit instead of generic weapon dps.

Nah, its based off weapon damage. Low level damage is just wonky because part of the damage calculation is subtracting a static amount of stats.

For example a level 1 GLD Seeker of the Sun has 20 STR and deals 8-9 damage against a level 1 mob. At level 2, their strength doesn't rise and they deal 7-8 damage against the same mob.
A level 1 MRD of the same race has 21 STR and deals 10-11 damage. At level 2, their strength rises and they deal the exact same damage.
A level 1 DRG of the same race has 22 STR and deals 11-12 damage, etc. etc.

This disparity goes away as your level rises, you gear up, and you equip your stat-increasing job change item.

[ogopogo]

It seems that in the entirety of this thread, not a single person has tried to parse any data on a dummy or use optimized rotation that an off-tank would use during burn phases such as the first Dreadnought in Turn 4. (As in with Defiance off or Sword's Oath on). Since I got into an argument with someone claiming that he did 171 dps on a dummy with WAR and 170 with a PLD over 3~5 minutes test time without any evidence to back it up, I've decided to do some tests myself with the PLD tank in my static Coil group and thought I'd share the result.

These tests are conducted on the level 1 dummies right outside the Gate of Sultana in Ul'dah, both of us wore full Heavy Darklight set with Vit accessories using Relic+1 and attacked until we ran out of TP. PLD didn't stop using DoT at the end which cause the DPS to drop after he stop attacking the dummies, however, I did write down the DPS the instant he stops attacking so please refer to those instead of the DPS number shown in his tests.

Also, do note that there's the fact that I put 20 points into strength and 10 into vitality instead of the full 30 points into vit on the Paladin. According to Valk's formula, that would account for a 4.89% increase in DPS on my end.

Warrior:
188.38 DPS (179.16 after deducting 4.89%)
191.30 DPS (181.84)
185.32 DPS (176.25)

Paladin:
136.67 DPS (without Storm's Eye debuff on the dummy)
157.32 DPS (with Storm's Eye debuff on the dummy)

There seem a much larger discrepancy than people suggested and I couldn't see anything wrong with the rotation that the Paladin was using either. If any other Paladin would like to post more result using the same condition please help provide data if you can.

[Hitokirinomad]

I think for any real conclusions to be drawn from your parses, you have to provide some of your background information/variables. Knowing exact stats of the characters involved, the rotation, stuff like that. A couple of things that stood out to me right away were the discrepancy between the number of attacks (WAR has 10k more attacks per parse it looks like), and I am not seeing Sword Oath damage. I don't think it's counted in auto attack damage, but I don't know how that parser works. If you could provide that information, it would be very helpful.

[Viridiana]

Yeah, the parse isn't picking up Sword Oath damage. I'm on my 30 PLD auto-attacking dummies outside Gridania. AA+SO is about 35 damage, but the parser is only picking up the 20 or so from the actual AA.

[ogopogo]

I've double checked the result from both ffxivapp and LogRep and am quite certain that Sword Oath damage is either counted in the auto-attack damage or aren't listed at all. I'll have to contact the Paladin for his stats (he was using a Lalafel in full Darklight and Vit accessory with a ring from Amdapor Keep if I remember correctly) but I can provide my own as I recorded one of my session along with my gear and stats sheet. As for the difference in damage done, the only reason I could have guessed was that he ran out of TP significantly faster than I did as my test usually last slightly longer than 3 minutes while his on average were around 2 minute 30 seconds. I do have a parse from LogRep that ran for 2:34 and was in similar range with the PLD's damage so that might come in handy as well.

Video link to rotation and stats
Warrior Parse in 2:34 in LogRep

[Viridiana]

Well, it's not counted in the auto attack damage on my version of xiv app, which is from last week or so. I can't comment on log rep, as I don't have that. I'm also wondering about the numbers posted in the PLD logs. Dividing his damage by his dps gives me a 184 second fight in the 136 dps example. That should be enough time for 24 full rotations, unless I'm missing something. Yet, he only used 21 rotations, and the parser didn't even catch one of his Savage Blades (unless he really did Fast->Rage once). There's a similar problem with the other parse, where the length required to get the numbers to match shows that he's missing rotations.

[ogopogo]

*snip*

I'm guessing this could very well be a problem with the parser since my parse seem to not catch some of my attacks as well. I'm positive that I didn't use BB without Skull Sunder yet I was missing one Skull Sunder in one of my parse. It was one of the reason why we tried to use LogRep but it was having even more trouble. It counted 11 Spirit Within in 2:37 and had 44 counts of Savage blade even though only 35 Fast Blade could be counted. I didn't notice him missing rotation when we did the test where I applied Storm's Eye on the dummy so I'm not sure what's going on there.

EDIT: I manage to find the LogRep parse he did which ended up with 179 dps if you'd like to take a look at that. And I just realized how ridiculous that parse looked. He did over 35 rotation in the span of 159 seconds...

[Viridiana]

Yeah, the parser's all kinds of fun. . .

[aswedishtiger]

MRD owns both by a pretty good margin

/thread