Tank Classes Off Tank DPS

[Virin]

Taking the numbers out of the equation here is my "I have been playing ff games since ff1 at 10 and mmo since eq1". There is no reason when setting a group that the main tank needs to be the main tank throught a whole dungeon. What I have seen is if 1 target put the pld in if group put war in. If boss + adds, pld boss war adds. It seems to work out well that way

[oceanlord]

thats only a minor dps different... considering our survivability is lower aswell..
whats WAR good for ?

[Savish]

I decided to test this last night

Marauder+weathered axe+heavy swing (150 Potency)= 9-10 Damage
Gladiator+weathered sword+fast blade (150 Potency)= 6-7 Damage

Weapon skill damage seems to be clearly based of the auto-attack damage normalization is not a factor.

Warrior relic+1 is 52.75 auto-attack
Paladin relic+1 is 35.57 auto-attack

So assuming damage calculations for weapon skills use auto-attack damage and do not normalize the damage based on weapon speed as seems to be the case here, the potency calculations from the above post are not even a remotely correct representation of warrior and gladiator DPS.

[nguyenmb]

I decided to test this last night

Marauder+weathered axe+heavy swing (150 Potency)= 9-10 Damage
Gladiator+weathered sword+fast blade (150 Potency)= 6-7 Damage

Weapon skill damage seems to be clearly based of the auto-attack damage normalization is not a factor.

Warrior relic+1 is 52.75 auto-attack
Paladin relic+1 is 35.57 auto-attack

So assuming damage calculations for weapon skills use auto-attack damage and do not normalize the damage based on weapon speed as seems to be the case here, the potency calculations from the above post are not even a remotely correct representation of warrior and gladiator DPS.

Has anyone verified this? I keep seeing posts comparing dps by only comparing potency and not factoring in that it seemingly scales off of a single auto attack hit instead of generic weapon dps.

[Ruminate]

Has anyone verified this? I keep seeing posts comparing dps by only comparing potency and not factoring in that it seemingly scales off of a single auto attack hit instead of generic weapon dps.

Nah, its based off weapon damage. Low level damage is just wonky because part of the damage calculation is subtracting a static amount of stats.

For example a level 1 GLD Seeker of the Sun has 20 STR and deals 8-9 damage against a level 1 mob. At level 2, their strength doesn't rise and they deal 7-8 damage against the same mob.
A level 1 MRD of the same race has 21 STR and deals 10-11 damage. At level 2, their strength rises and they deal the exact same damage.
A level 1 DRG of the same race has 22 STR and deals 11-12 damage, etc. etc.

This disparity goes away as your level rises, you gear up, and you equip your stat-increasing job change item.

[ogopogo]

It seems that in the entirety of this thread, not a single person has tried to parse any data on a dummy or use optimized rotation that an off-tank would use during burn phases such as the first Dreadnought in Turn 4. (As in with Defiance off or Sword's Oath on). Since I got into an argument with someone claiming that he did 171 dps on a dummy with WAR and 170 with a PLD over 3~5 minutes test time without any evidence to back it up, I've decided to do some tests myself with the PLD tank in my static Coil group and thought I'd share the result.

These tests are conducted on the level 1 dummies right outside the Gate of Sultana in Ul'dah, both of us wore full Heavy Darklight set with Vit accessories using Relic+1 and attacked until we ran out of TP. PLD didn't stop using DoT at the end which cause the DPS to drop after he stop attacking the dummies, however, I did write down the DPS the instant he stops attacking so please refer to those instead of the DPS number shown in his tests.

Also, do note that there's the fact that I put 20 points into strength and 10 into vitality instead of the full 30 points into vit on the Paladin. According to Valk's formula, that would account for a 4.89% increase in DPS on my end.

Warrior:
188.38 DPS (179.16 after deducting 4.89%)
191.30 DPS (181.84)
185.32 DPS (176.25)

Paladin:
136.67 DPS (without Storm's Eye debuff on the dummy)
157.32 DPS (with Storm's Eye debuff on the dummy)

There seem a much larger discrepancy than people suggested and I couldn't see anything wrong with the rotation that the Paladin was using either. If any other Paladin would like to post more result using the same condition please help provide data if you can.

[Hitokirinomad]

I think for any real conclusions to be drawn from your parses, you have to provide some of your background information/variables. Knowing exact stats of the characters involved, the rotation, stuff like that. A couple of things that stood out to me right away were the discrepancy between the number of attacks (WAR has 10k more attacks per parse it looks like), and I am not seeing Sword Oath damage. I don't think it's counted in auto attack damage, but I don't know how that parser works. If you could provide that information, it would be very helpful.

[Viridiana]

Yeah, the parse isn't picking up Sword Oath damage. I'm on my 30 PLD auto-attacking dummies outside Gridania. AA+SO is about 35 damage, but the parser is only picking up the 20 or so from the actual AA.

[ogopogo]

I've double checked the result from both ffxivapp and LogRep and am quite certain that Sword Oath damage is either counted in the auto-attack damage or aren't listed at all. I'll have to contact the Paladin for his stats (he was using a Lalafel in full Darklight and Vit accessory with a ring from Amdapor Keep if I remember correctly) but I can provide my own as I recorded one of my session along with my gear and stats sheet. As for the difference in damage done, the only reason I could have guessed was that he ran out of TP significantly faster than I did as my test usually last slightly longer than 3 minutes while his on average were around 2 minute 30 seconds. I do have a parse from LogRep that ran for 2:34 and was in similar range with the PLD's damage so that might come in handy as well.

Video link to rotation and stats
Warrior Parse in 2:34 in LogRep