Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

[Rydin]

Some idiotic statements.

It's not fun... it's stupid

[ashikenshin]

It's not fun... it's stupid

agree completely. Also agree that his statements were idiotic. I managed to dodge everything in WoW, I managed to beat every game since the nes. Yet MOVING is apparently difficult to me in this game. Yeah that doesn't work, my abilities and everyone else's in this game aren't what's wrong.

[Rydin]

agree completely. Also agree that his statements were idiotic. I managed to dodge everything in WoW, I managed to beat every game since the nes. Yet MOVING is apparently difficult to me in this game. Yeah that doesn't work, my abilities and everyone else's in this game aren't what's wrong.

He has no idea. And I don't even get hit by Titan... and I am intelligent enough to know that it's not because I am some incredible player.... it's because I memorized his attacks very early and I know when to move. Thats not fun for me... Its a retarded, scripted fight. I guess we're all wrong for wanting some dynamic content. Kyuyuna, I hope it really does get fixed, but I juts don't know

[Staris]

agree completely. Also agree that his statements were idiotic. I managed to dodge everything in WoW, I managed to beat every game since the nes. Yet MOVING is apparently difficult to me in this game. Yeah that doesn't work, my abilities and everyone else's in this game aren't what's wrong.

Using wow as a yard stick is pathetic. In wow logistics are far more of the difficulty then reaction time, might as well have sourced EVE online gameplay.

You also mention NES games, while I understand you can not perceive your reaction time slowing with age.... but go back and play battle toads.... I await your completion video.

[Rydin]

Using wow as a yard stick is pathetic. In wow logistics are far more of the difficulty then reaction time, might as well have sourced EVE online gameplay.

You also mention NES games, while I understand you can not perceive your reaction time slowing with age.... but go back and play battle toads.... I await your completion video.

To be fair, battletoads was hard even when we WERE young, lol

[Eclipsed]

Using wow as a yard stick is pathetic. In wow logistics are far more of the difficulty then reaction time, might as well have sourced EVE online gameplay.

You also mention NES games, while I understand you can not perceive your reaction time slowing with age.... but go back and play battle toads.... I await your completion video.

I score under 200ms on average on reaction tests (200 or so is average for human beings), can dodge everything in every other MMO on the planet but still have trouble with Titan at times. But really reaction speed has nothing to do with it. Got knocked off by landslide yesterday when I did titan as a dps, checked latency and had a 69ms ping to the servers and on my screen when it happened I was all the way on the other side of the platform well before the cast finished.

Stop trying to pretend that problems don't exist with the game, you aren't helping anyone.

[Gaddes]

but go back and play battle toads.... I await your completion video.

Battletoads is hard for anyone, regardless of age. You need a better example.

[Sovjohn]

I'd like to add something to the conversation here -

The following is a traceroute to the NA / EU datacenter in Montreal by an ISP in southeastern Europe (Athens, Greece):

Non-prime time (23:50 BST - 01:50 EET)
Tracing route to 199.91.189.25 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2    25 ms    24 ms    24 ms  bbras-llu-kln-15L500.forthnet.gr [213.16.246.12]

  3    25 ms    24 ms    25 ms  213.16.247.73
  4    28 ms    28 ms    26 ms  core-kln-12Be3.forthnet.gr [213.16.247.17]
  5   25 ms   27 ms   28 ms  te-3-2.car1.Sofia2.Level3.net [212.162.46.109]
  6   65 ms    68 ms    65 ms  4.69.141.109
  7    71 ms    76 ms    73 ms  ae-10-10.ebr3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.141.34]
  8    66 ms    66 ms    66 ms  ae-73-73.csw2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.163.6]
  9    66 ms    66 ms    65 ms  ae-2-70.edge4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.154.72]
 10    77 ms    78 ms    78 ms  4.68.111.146
 11   157 ms   156 ms   157 ms  if-7-2.tcore1.FNM-Frankfurt.as6453.net [195.219.50.2]
 12   156 ms   155 ms   156 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.AV2-Amsterdam.as6453.net [195.219.194.13]
 13   163 ms   160 ms   159 ms  if-2-2.tcore2.AV2-Amsterdam.as6453.net [195.219.194.6]
 14   173 ms   171 ms   172 ms  if-7-2.tcore2.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.152.14]
 15   158 ms   159 ms   158 ms  if-20-2.tcore2.NYY-NewYork.as6453.net [216.6.99.13]
 16   156 ms   157 ms   155 ms  if-2-2.tcore2.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [64.86.226.13]
 17   158 ms   158 ms   166 ms  if-0-2.tcore1.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [216.6.115.89]
 18   159 ms   161 ms   157 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [64.86.31.6]
 19   164 ms   164 ms   163 ms  66.198.96.50
 20   166 ms   166 ms   170 ms  192.34.76.2
 21   182 ms   183 ms   183 ms  199.91.189.234
 22   166 ms   165 ms   165 ms  199.91.189.25

Trace complete.

Prime time (19:00 BST - 21:00 EET)
 1     1 ms     2 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    23 ms    22 ms    22 ms  bbras-llu-kln-15L500.forthnet.gr [213.16.246.12]

  3    23 ms    22 ms    22 ms  213.16.247.73
  4    25 ms    23 ms    23 ms  core-kln-12Be3.forthnet.gr [213.16.247.17]
  5    33 ms    35 ms    33 ms  te-3-2.car1.Sofia2.Level3.net [212.162.46.109]
  6    63 ms    63 ms    62 ms   4.69.141.109
  7    63 ms    67 ms    74 ms  ae-10-10.ebr3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.141.34]
  8    64 ms    63 ms    63 ms  ae-93-93.csw4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.163.14]
  9    64 ms    63 ms    63 ms  ae-4-90.edge4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.154.200]
 10    62 ms    61 ms    62 ms  4.68.111.146
 11   158 ms   158 ms   159 ms  if-4-2.tcore1.PVU-Paris.as6453.net [80.231.153.10]
 12   298 ms   306 ms   319 ms  if-2-2.tcore1.PYE-Paris.as6453.net [80.231.154.18]
 13   332 ms   328 ms   325 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.130.1]
 14   333 ms   316 ms   338 ms  if-1-2.tcore2.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.130.122]
 15   314 ms   305 ms   303 ms  if-20-2.tcore2.NYY-NewYork.as6453.net [216.6.99.13]
 16   325 ms   328 ms   345 ms  if-5-2.tcore2.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [216.6.99.30]
 17   332 ms   315 ms   308 ms  if-0-2.tcore1.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [216.6.115.89]
 18   315 ms   329 ms   342 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [64.86.31.6]
 19   319 ms   324 ms   317 ms  66.198.96.50
 20   336 ms   327 ms   316 ms  192.34.76.2
 21   316 ms   312 ms   305 ms  199.91.189.234
 22   322 ms   318 ms   321 ms  199.91.189.25

Okay. I have submitted these traceroutes to them, via support (and for the first one, which was in the initial ticket, they mercifully said they'd "forward it to the datacenter", something I honestly did not expect, despite being very rational to do so).

I have also told them the following, in an e-mail response:

You will notice that the 300+ ms in Paris or London (in bold above) are over what they should be (Europe-to-Europe connectivity should be at 100 ms or less, as you can see Athens-Frankfurt is "only" 63).

Since after Paris, the rest of the route up to Montreal is entirely within TATA (London, New York, and finally Montreal), I presume that TATA must be the primary / only provider of bandwidth for your Montreal datacenter.

So, it would be wise for Square Enix to take this up with them (TATA). Perhaps they can perform network upgrades or otherwise direct traffic from / to your Montreal datacenter through links which are less congested.


TL;DR: Square Enix / EIDOS Montreal should take up this issue with TATA, to alleviate problems with EU players in general, since the problem is not isolated or restricted to few cases only. It appears that a significant discrepancy exists in "prime time" hours, when links are severely congested and produce double the pings + packet loss, hence normal gameplay under these conditions is totally unfeasible.

Alternatively, Square Enix could decide to deploy some servers in UK, where Square Enix Europe is, and automatically stop worrying about TATA links

Conclusion

I hope you understood the issue from a networking POV, at least as adequately as simple testing can allow this to be done. There are more elaborate ways to test, however, the link congestion will not go away on its own, unless Eidos Montreal decides to significantly change their Internet bandwidth providers and / or take this up with TATA which seems to be the only ones taking EU players to them as things are.

[Suellen]

*snip*

My husband has been examining our trace route from Los Angeles California and we are having the same issues with TATA. We are trying to see if we can use a program/service like smoothping to alleviate it until the data centers fix their shit (hopefully that's a when and not an if). This is not just a EU problem this is a problem for lots of people all over the place.

The irony is that our ping to the JP servers is steady, strong, and only about 5ms higher latency than the "NA" one. We probably should have played on the JP servers. who knew. :P

[complexxL9]

I'd like to add something to the conversation here -

The following is a traceroute to the NA / EU datacenter in Montreal by an ISP in southeastern Europe (Athens, Greece):

Non-prime time (23:50 BST - 01:50 EET)
Tracing route to 199.91.189.25 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2    25 ms    24 ms    24 ms  bbras-llu-kln-15L500.forthnet.gr [213.16.246.12]

  3    25 ms    24 ms    25 ms  213.16.247.73
  4    28 ms    28 ms    26 ms  core-kln-12Be3.forthnet.gr [213.16.247.17]
  5   25 ms   27 ms   28 ms  te-3-2.car1.Sofia2.Level3.net [212.162.46.109]
  6   65 ms    68 ms    65 ms  4.69.141.109
  7    71 ms    76 ms    73 ms  ae-10-10.ebr3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.141.34]
  8    66 ms    66 ms    66 ms  ae-73-73.csw2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.163.6]
  9    66 ms    66 ms    65 ms  ae-2-70.edge4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.154.72]
 10    77 ms    78 ms    78 ms  4.68.111.146
 11   157 ms   156 ms   157 ms  if-7-2.tcore1.FNM-Frankfurt.as6453.net [195.219.50.2]
 12   156 ms   155 ms   156 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.AV2-Amsterdam.as6453.net [195.219.194.13]
 13   163 ms   160 ms   159 ms  if-2-2.tcore2.AV2-Amsterdam.as6453.net [195.219.194.6]
 14   173 ms   171 ms   172 ms  if-7-2.tcore2.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.152.14]
 15   158 ms   159 ms   158 ms  if-20-2.tcore2.NYY-NewYork.as6453.net [216.6.99.13]
 16   156 ms   157 ms   155 ms  if-2-2.tcore2.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [64.86.226.13]
 17   158 ms   158 ms   166 ms  if-0-2.tcore1.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [216.6.115.89]
 18   159 ms   161 ms   157 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [64.86.31.6]
 19   164 ms   164 ms   163 ms  66.198.96.50
 20   166 ms   166 ms   170 ms  192.34.76.2
 21   182 ms   183 ms   183 ms  199.91.189.234
 22   166 ms   165 ms   165 ms  199.91.189.25

Trace complete.

Prime time (19:00 BST - 21:00 EET)
 1     1 ms     2 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    23 ms    22 ms    22 ms  bbras-llu-kln-15L500.forthnet.gr [213.16.246.12]

  3    23 ms    22 ms    22 ms  213.16.247.73
  4    25 ms    23 ms    23 ms  core-kln-12Be3.forthnet.gr [213.16.247.17]
  5    33 ms    35 ms    33 ms  te-3-2.car1.Sofia2.Level3.net [212.162.46.109]
  6    63 ms    63 ms    62 ms   4.69.141.109
  7    63 ms    67 ms    74 ms  ae-10-10.ebr3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.141.34]
  8    64 ms    63 ms    63 ms  ae-93-93.csw4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.163.14]
  9    64 ms    63 ms    63 ms  ae-4-90.edge4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.154.200]
 10    62 ms    61 ms    62 ms  4.68.111.146
 11   158 ms   158 ms   159 ms  if-4-2.tcore1.PVU-Paris.as6453.net [80.231.153.10]
 12   298 ms   306 ms   319 ms  if-2-2.tcore1.PYE-Paris.as6453.net [80.231.154.18]
 13   332 ms   328 ms   325 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.130.1]
 14   333 ms   316 ms   338 ms  if-1-2.tcore2.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.130.122]
 15   314 ms   305 ms   303 ms  if-20-2.tcore2.NYY-NewYork.as6453.net [216.6.99.13]
 16   325 ms   328 ms   345 ms  if-5-2.tcore2.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [216.6.99.30]
 17   332 ms   315 ms   308 ms  if-0-2.tcore1.MTT-Montreal.as6453.net [216.6.115.89]
 18   315 ms   329 ms   342 ms  if-5-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [64.86.31.6]
 19   319 ms   324 ms   317 ms  66.198.96.50
 20   336 ms   327 ms   316 ms  192.34.76.2
 21   316 ms   312 ms   305 ms  199.91.189.234
 22   322 ms   318 ms   321 ms  199.91.189.25

Okay. I have submitted these traceroutes to them, via support (and for the first one, which was in the initial ticket, they mercifully said they'd "forward it to the datacenter", something I honestly did not expect, despite being very rational to do so).

I have also told them the following, in an e-mail response:

You will notice that the 300+ ms in Paris or London (in bold above) are over what they should be (Europe-to-Europe connectivity should be at 100 ms or less, as you can see Athens-Frankfurt is "only" 63).

Since after Paris, the rest of the route up to Montreal is entirely within TATA (London, New York, and finally Montreal), I presume that TATA must be the primary / only provider of bandwidth for your Montreal datacenter.

So, it would be wise for Square Enix to take this up with them (TATA). Perhaps they can perform network upgrades or otherwise direct traffic from / to your Montreal datacenter through links which are less congested.


TL;DR: Square Enix / EIDOS Montreal should take up this issue with TATA, to alleviate problems with EU players in general, since the problem is not isolated or restricted to few cases only. It appears that a significant discrepancy exists in "prime time" hours, when links are severely congested and produce double the pings + packet loss, hence normal gameplay under these conditions is totally unfeasible.

Alternatively, Square Enix could decide to deploy some servers in UK, where Square Enix Europe is, and automatically stop worrying about TATA links

Conclusion

I hope you understood the issue from a networking POV, at least as adequately as simple testing can allow this to be done. There are more elaborate ways to test, however, the link congestion will not go away on its own, unless Eidos Montreal decides to significantly change their Internet bandwidth providers and / or take this up with TATA which seems to be the only ones taking EU players to them as things are.

My tracert from Lithuania has no such problems:

Tracing route to 199.91.189.25 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 2 ms 2 ms 3 ms 10.1.1.254
2 1 ms * <1 ms tmg.compa.lt [10.1.1.253]
3 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 213-190-53-33.static.zebra.lt [213.190.53.33]
4 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 81-7-116-65.static.zebra.lt [81.7.116.65]
5 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms 82-135-180-3.static.zebra.lt [82.135.180.3]
6 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms xe-11-0-0.waw10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.99.201]
7 128 ms 123 ms 126 ms xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.184.74]
8 118 ms 118 ms 118 ms ormuco-gw.ip4.tinet.net [216.221.156.110]
9 142 ms 133 ms 139 ms 192.34.76.2
10 119 ms 118 ms 118 ms 199.91.189.234
11 119 ms * 125 ms 199.91.189.25

Trace complete.