Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Reading the most recent "Letter from the Producer" (#51) and the themes planned for the next "Live letter" (oct.19), it seems as though they're not even addressing the issue. Based on the fact that it's an "accepted bug" and also a topic they did address back in v1 and v2 beta, I have formed the following conclusions.

1. Square Enix is aware of the problem but does not have a working solution for it as we speak.
2. Considering how long they've been aware of the issue, that they still haven't come up with a solution means one of two things: they either don't think this is a serious issue, or they simply don't know how to fix it. The latter could be resulting of two likely constrains: either a technical one, by which they don't have the skills necessary to improve their code; or a budget constrain, meaning they don't have the cash to muscle up their datacenter enough to circumvent this 300ms check (we all know that, to reach acceptable "fixing" standards, this check should happen at least 10 times more often, in the vicinity of 30ms or less).
3. Considering the above, Square Enix knows that simply admitting that they can't fix the issue would be a very short-termed relief: while players would appreciate the honesty at first, they'd likely be very hesitant on continuing to play an online game that is that much sub-par in terms of responsiveness. Therefore, they just don't say a word about it, preferring to be oblivious to the issue, at least publicly.
4. I could think of a few ways to at least improve the situation, typically by implementing client-side prediction, as most AAA online games do from day 1; but again, considering all of the above, and the fact that rewriting netcode is by no means a small endeavour, I wouldn't get my hopes up for such a design improvement before 3.0 at the very best. If Final Fantasy XI is any indication, game-breaking issues of this magnitude may never be fixed.

Should this be true, it is my contention that it's probably the worst way to address such a game-breaking issue: try to bury the issue under the carpet, and probably not even work on it (or very slowly) behind the curtain. They should not only make a grand statement saying that they're doing something, but also and foremost invest heavily into solving one of the most worrying aspect of this game, bearing its long-term future in mind. Should they not do that, most players will simply move on to other games, not without mentioning publicly on various forums/comment threads/to friends that "FF XIV is nice but the network is broken", and should other players still try this game after that, they'll realise soon that indeed the network part of it is broken and, simply put, they'll leave as well.

This game could have millions of subscribers in the long run, it is that good; unfortunately with such poor responsiveness, it's unlikely to be anything more than a niche akin to FF XI, in the vicinity of 500k regular subscribers. For a franchise (IP) that sold above the 200M mark in its 25+ years of existence, I'd call that a failure. Wake up, SE.

[Efrye]

Considering how long they've been aware of the issue, that they still haven't come up with a solution means one of two things: they either don't think this is a serious issue, or they simply don't know how to fix it.

The thing is: As I mentioned in this thread before, they could easily make this issue irrelevant by designing content accordingly. The lag was even worse in FFXI, yet it was never that big a deal in that game.

But no, they absolutely have to copy other MMOs and make this a twitchy AoE dodge fest, come hell or high water. Never mind if it's playable, just make sure people have to keep pressing them buttons every two seconds.

[kayuwoody]

Ok, I hate to be that guy, because I have personally experienced the lag myself. But all of the videos linked in the OP actually show the players NOT leaving the AOE before the cast bar goes off (or in the first link, doesn't show the enemy cast bar). The video examples provided aren't helping the case.

The disconnect between animation and the enemy cast bar is huge (1-2 secs sometimes) and this is something that should be addressed, but it's a separate thing.
The current game mechanic is leave AOE before enemy cast bar finishes, and that wasn't shown in the links provided.

At this point in time, while it's not natural to avoid the mechanic that you can't visually see the enemy doing yet, you can indeed avoid the mechanic based on the enemy cast bar. Of course you're still going to get some latency issues, so don't expect to leave the AOE within a pixel of the cast bar completing and escape either.

[Orsnoire]

Ok, I hate to be that guy, because I have personally experienced the lag myself. But all of the videos linked in the OP actually show the players NOT leaving the AOE before the cast bar goes off (or in the first link, doesn't show the enemy cast bar). The video examples provided aren't helping the case.

The disconnect between animation and the enemy cast bar is huge (1-2 secs sometimes) and this is something that should be addressed, but it's a separate thing.
The current game mechanic is leave AOE before enemy cast bar finishes, and that wasn't shown in the links provided.

At this point in time, while it's not natural to avoid the mechanic that you can't visually see the enemy doing yet, you can indeed avoid the mechanic based on the enemy cast bar. Of course you're still going to get some latency issues, so don't expect to leave the AOE within a pixel of the cast bar completing and escape either.

Yeah, and how are healers supposed to watch a cast bar that isn't visible and move based on that invisible cast bar, hmmm?

They need it to be responsive so that the only way to complete content doesn't involve clunky workarounds (i.e. healers staying targetted on the main boss).

[kayuwoody]

Yeah, and how are healers supposed to watch a cast bar that isn't visible and move based on that invisible cast bar, hmmm?

They need it to be responsive so that the only way to complete content doesn't involve clunky workarounds (i.e. healers staying targetted on the main boss).

You're preaching to the choir. I've been trying to pug this as WHM for a few days now. I've found it easiest to keep Titan targetted at all times, and to heal the tank as my Focus target, and rest of party via the party frames. Essentially all my spells go in order of <mo> <f> <tt>. Knowing the rotation is essential of course, but I still get hit by stuff when I tunnel vision into healing people. Fight's relatively easy if everyone's playing their roles. The upside to all that practice pugging, I think I'm finally at a comfortable place for this fight as healer, where I will only get hit by something if I'm playing badly.

[CatofNineTails]

Ok, I hate to be that guy, because I have personally experienced the lag myself. But all of the videos linked in the OP actually show the players NOT leaving the AOE before the cast bar goes off (or in the first link, doesn't show the enemy cast bar). The video examples provided aren't helping the case.

The disconnect between animation and the enemy cast bar is huge (1-2 secs sometimes) and this is something that should be addressed, but it's a separate thing.
The current game mechanic is leave AOE before enemy cast bar finishes, and that wasn't shown in the links provided.

At this point in time, while it's not natural to avoid the mechanic that you can't visually see the enemy doing yet, you can indeed avoid the mechanic based on the enemy cast bar. Of course you're still going to get some latency issues, so don't expect to leave the AOE within a pixel of the cast bar completing and escape either.

the delay is UNIVERSAL which includes the cast bar. if you don't get the tell on time you also dont get the cast bar on time. according to the players screen neither has been loaded while the servers are already counting down. same is true for damage bars and any other info sent to the client. the instances were not made equally optimized as the world servers were.

this also makes players who are less affected by the delay not see the problem because the delay is hiding itself by loading late on their screens too just not as late as others. internet latency can be a factor for some but when you have a very low ping and no latency issue fromthe internet and still get slow loads you can't blame the connection any more.

the instances especially boss fights include increased graphics like glowing tells fire water ice wind poison effects and more fleshed out environments which creates a graphics lag for some on top of the instance latency issue further increasing the lag.

[Astarica]

Explain server architecture issue. Because if you're talking that the delay is because we can't get information to the server fast enough, that's a lie. I have 90 ms ping and experience much much more delay. The travel times should not, and in games without this, does not matter (unless you don't have a good ISP which is an entirely separate issue).

And some examples from the games I've played would be Tera, Neverwinter, and LoL. None of those games have this problem.

This game chooses to do most decisions that are normally handled client side on the server side. Let's take the ability to cast a spell move while moving. In most games, it goes like this:

1. You move.
2. Client stops your spell and your spell fails.

In FF14 it's like this:

1. You start moving.
2. Client relays the movement info.
3. Server does not receive this info on time and decides you're perfectly fine, spell is successfully cast.

[tort]

While I, and many of my other FC members are currently paying our way for a temporary shotty fix via battleping, I would love for them to address and resolve the latency issues explained from the OP. Personally I don't like having to pay an extra 5 dollars a month for BP, when it's on SE to fix the issues. Granted, I don't expect them to be fixed until a majority of the other issues are fixed. It would still be nice if they acknowledge, and talk about the issue, and at least say they are trying to do something ;-;

I can say that once 2.1 releases, if the issues aren't fixed, PvP is going to be completely broken and become very enjoyable. At this point, you will be dealing Client > Server > Client, rather than Client > Server so the delay will be horrendous.

[tort]

Do you have a video or something? I'm honestly not asking to be snarky. I just have yet to see a single video of this game where someone dodges something at the last second.

In regards to my previous post, there is a workaround, and thats to pay for a third party program called BattlePing. It's 5 dollars a month, and does NOT work for everyone, and still has it's issues. If you're getting super frustrated with the game, but really enjoy it, I suggest giving BP free trial a go. I'm not saying this is the solution by any means at all, but a temporary, partial work around if you care to try it out. I still say SE needs to fix the problem.

[Sunarie]

In regards to my previous post, there is a workaround, and thats to pay for a third party program called BattlePing.

We're progressing through coil just fine, so the issue isn't really something that I can't overcome (we made it to Turn 4 in 2 days of raiding).. I'm just not denying that it's a problem. Thank you for the work around. The video comment was more at the folks flat out claiming they get no lag and as long as they're out of the aoe by the time the cast bar finished, regardless of how close, they wouldn't get hit. I simply don't believe that's possible with the way the game is setup currently, so I want to see proof of it is all.