AFK Leveling

[Shai]

lol. 10 chars i think i have enough chars this time.

I'm not sure what you're talking about or why you keep saying this but...

Personal Opinion: You don't need more than 8 chars really at this point in the game. 10 is probably too many.

[Honz]

You can't make a post with less than 10 characters in your post.

[Shai]

...but I can ask people to provide evidence or ideas of how AFK leveling or power leveling imbalances the game in anyway and be met with stark silence and disappearance of posters.

That's a neat trick, I think. It's almost like it's an invalid argument.

[Honz]

I dunno you guys can argue all you want about who's idea is right or wrong. Only fact here is that theres nothing any of us can or cannot do about it. This was all a merely a discussion and people got all worked up over it.

You can prove all you want about how your opinion is right but in the end nothing is being done about it, only thing thats happening is you're showing how you behave in this community.

[Shai]

I am showing I behave rationally and in the defense of my right to play how I choose within the confines of the game mechanics and the rules of conduct I agreed to? Sweet!

I'm not trying to "prove" I'm right. I'm asking for the people who claimed it was "wrong" to explain how or why its wrong in words other than "they don't like it." I don't think it's too much to ask for, honestly. Especially if they're going to beg the development team to "fix" it. (Especially after [some people] begged the development team to take away a system that demanded you not be AFK - though they may not be the same people).

Personally I liked the previous system more, but I would have given a small amount of SP per kill regardless of actions so you didn't walk away from a fight with 0SP occasionally. That was a real bummer about that system. A minimum cap of 50 SP and a hard cap of 500SP would have been nice, though. Just my opinion, I know it's an unpopular one.

When I first experienced it in Beta I thought "Sweet, a system where people can AFK and no one cares, but they don't get the benefit of receiving EXP/SP also. How casual!"

[Hotohori]

You don't work, you don't eat. It's that simple. For every person out there wasting resources in life, depending on others without contributing will cause others to pay for it in some form.

Every empty character has general effect in a small world economy like this game. A player who essentially controls two characters will have twice the benefits through the same amount and time and effort as a player with one. You create twice the supply without the balance of twice the demand.

Player 1 controls a single character does 8 regional levequests per reset. Player 1 generates X raw income and T materials into the system.

Player 2 controls two characters and does 16 regional levequests per reset. Player 2 generates X+Y income and T+U materials into the system for zero additional effort. Same amount of time spent for twice the rewards.

Player 2 has devalued the effort of Player 1 in half already.

Player 1 controls one character and mines for 3 hours generating X materials and shards.

Player 2 controls two characters and mines for 3 hours generating X+Y materials and shards.

Player 2 has devalued the materials acquired by creating more identical supply then Player 1.

Player 1 controls one character and grinds monsters generating X skill points in 2 hours.

Player 2 controls two characters and grinds monsters generating X+Y+Z+Y skill points in 2 hours.

X is the standard skill value gained by Player 1 and 2. Z is the standard skill value gained by Player 2 second character. Y is the skill value gained from bonuses of party, kill efficiency and additional kills possible with two characters.

Player 2 gains superior skill gains without additional effort to Player 1.

If you work as hard as two people, you deserve the rewards of two people for sure. This is not the current situation. People are working as hard as one person and reaping the rewards of eight people is not balanced. People are controlling eight characters to have an advantage over players who don't control eight characters.

Player 2 will generate twice the general supply and benefits of Player 1 without generating the demand and needs of being two real people. Your two characters create a smaller scale effect that is similar to the effects of mass account uses of RMT and bots. The only difference is the demand of RMT is real money in exchange for their supply and similar amounts of work, while you are accepting additional skill points and revenue for your excess supply. Just because you don't directly see yourself hurting someone doesn't mean your actions have no consequences.

Any event or limitation of time through the game is being bypassed by additional character management. Low on anima? Your second is there to teleport you. No more leves to do? Your second has 8 more for you to skill up on. Need more crystals? Your second is doubling your crystal gain through a broken system of loot distribution. Hit gathering fatigue for the day? Your second is fresh and ready to go. Sorry that second character isn't doing anything but existing behind you and has every point of skill and items you earned without doing anything. This isn't right at all.

You say you don't see huge groups around you with 7 leeches following, well that is because they are standing behind you it seems. I see them and know I can't do anything about it just like I can't stop craft bots and fish bots. But I'm free to judge and express my opinions about it just like any one else in the world. You are doing the same and is no different.

What exactly is it about your wife being 35 and not 50 that is hurting you guys. Are you embarrassed she is not 50 like you? Did she withhold sex from you for not ranking her character? Last I checked there was no law that required someone to reach rank 50 in a certain time limit. If she plays she will get there eventually. If you want to play together you still can. You playing her character to rank 50 is not playing together, it's you playing with yourself.

Your example of the friend helping someone gain a NM drop is incredibly poor. The drop was a single generation that could go to either your friend or yourself. You choosing to give to your friend or even hunt for your friend was entirely up to you. It did not generate extra versions of the drop in a single instance for being there and the existence of it has no other effect on other players. More will be generated over time and go to others normally. Did the friend deserve the drop? The actual answer is no! Technically he did not earn it at all did he. My statement is not false in any literal sense.

If you let someone leech you that is your fault for doing so. But the issue here isn't so simple as a random leech in a pick up group. If I see the efforts of myself in the game being reduced by others through excess means, I'm allowed to call them out on it.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

hoto so far your wall of text = I play ffxiv to much [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Sorry that was a poor and untruthful example and sounds more like a cry for help. Games are not real life get over it.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] TONS of ppl dualboxed in ffxi. Yet no one really cried over it.

[Shai]

You don't work, you don't eat. It's that simple. For every person out there wasting resources in life, depending on others without contributing will cause others to pay for it in some form.

I do work. It's called 'raising a family.'
It's actually quite difficult. You should try it sometime. It's very rewarding.

Edit: Also in your example that I didn't read past 4 paragraphs. The only difference between Player 1 and Player 2 is that Player 1 chooses to rely on 1 "characters" income rather than start a new character, spend the time to level it, and reap more of a reward. You get the effort you put into it. Player 1 could go out and buy a 2nd computer and a 2nd FFXIV and do what I do (which by the way is for a 2nd human player who buys her own gear and uses her own resources - but in your example we can pretend that's not the case).

Nothing bars others from doing it besides the choice not to do it. There's nothing in the game itself or the rules given by SE that indicate you cannot or should not do it. People are just creating these "morals" and "beliefs" about right & wrong (which is fine) but then trying to hold others to their arbitrary standards.

I play by my own arbitrary standards and the rules and guidelines presented to me by SE.

PS: Sorry for the long edit. I didn't want to blow off your whole post. Just the half of it that was redundant.

[Hotohori]

Sorry if you misunderstood I don't give a *** how you play kilta but I care that the system of the game creates double the normal rewards for zero additional effort when it comes to just having an additional character. I was giving a response to how additional characters and people who simply take the easy way in life are currently effecting others. I didn't call out anyone specifically and my comments were are pretty correct about the system of skill and material generation in the game.

[Hotohori]

I do work. It's called 'raising a family.'
It's actually quite difficult. You should try it sometime. It's very rewarding.

Does your work generate enough revenue to provide for two families instead of one?