AFK Leveling

[Honz]

I dunno you guys can argue all you want about who's idea is right or wrong. Only fact here is that theres nothing any of us can or cannot do about it. This was all a merely a discussion and people got all worked up over it.

You can prove all you want about how your opinion is right but in the end nothing is being done about it, only thing thats happening is you're showing how you behave in this community.

[Shai]

You don't work, you don't eat. It's that simple. For every person out there wasting resources in life, depending on others without contributing will cause others to pay for it in some form.

I do work. It's called 'raising a family.'
It's actually quite difficult. You should try it sometime. It's very rewarding.

Edit: Also in your example that I didn't read past 4 paragraphs. The only difference between Player 1 and Player 2 is that Player 1 chooses to rely on 1 "characters" income rather than start a new character, spend the time to level it, and reap more of a reward. You get the effort you put into it. Player 1 could go out and buy a 2nd computer and a 2nd FFXIV and do what I do (which by the way is for a 2nd human player who buys her own gear and uses her own resources - but in your example we can pretend that's not the case).

Nothing bars others from doing it besides the choice not to do it. There's nothing in the game itself or the rules given by SE that indicate you cannot or should not do it. People are just creating these "morals" and "beliefs" about right & wrong (which is fine) but then trying to hold others to their arbitrary standards.

I play by my own arbitrary standards and the rules and guidelines presented to me by SE.

PS: Sorry for the long edit. I didn't want to blow off your whole post. Just the half of it that was redundant.

[Hotohori]

I do work. It's called 'raising a family.'
It's actually quite difficult. You should try it sometime. It's very rewarding.

Does your work generate enough revenue to provide for two families instead of one?

[Shai]

Does your work generate enough revenue to provide for two families instead of one?

It doesn't need to because my wife and I generate enough revenue to take care of the only family that matters, which is the same as the income we make in FFXIV.

I mean, I have full Harlequin (that I bought) and 10mil gil. She bought a Vintage Robe and only has 4mil gil. All she's getting is SP and trash to sell to NPCs. It's not like we're making a fortune and rolling around in our money bins. I play more. I have more resources. She plays enough and has enough to maintain her gear for the levels I get for her or with her - and what she can't afford I cover the difference, just like real life.

It's a partnership. It's not a disadvantage to anyone else around us except people who don't have friends or wives. That's not a problem I can solve for anyone else. Find your own friends & wives.

[Hotohori]

It doesn't need to because my wife and I generate enough revenue to take care of the only family that matters, which is the same as the income we make in FFXIV.

I mean, I have full Harlequin (that I bought) and 10mil gil. She bought a Vintage Robe and only has 4mil gil. All she's getting is SP and trash to sell to NPCs. It's not like we're making a fortune and rolling around in our money bins. I play more. I have more resources. She plays enough and has enough to maintain her gear for the levels I get for her or with her - and what she can't afford I cover the difference, just like real life.

It's a partnership. It's not a disadvantage to anyone else around us except people who don't have friends or wives. That's not a problem I can solve for anyone else. Find your own friends & wives.

It's great that you provide for your family like I provide for mine but I'm pointing out a flaw in the systems of the game where it is balanced for a single player at a time which your methods of play bypass. The general argument of the people who do play like this is either why do you care? or SE is not discouraging it. If your wife didn't work for an example but your job suddenly paid double what it did now because your married, is that fair to the single guy who works with you doing the exact same thing. This is how the game is right now. You're saying I just need to buy a new high end computer, a new game and subscription to have what you have. Your words sound nice and simple but I don't find it convincing enough for me to do.

[Shai]

I am showing I behave rationally and in the defense of my right to play how I choose within the confines of the game mechanics and the rules of conduct I agreed to? Sweet!

I'm not trying to "prove" I'm right. I'm asking for the people who claimed it was "wrong" to explain how or why its wrong in words other than "they don't like it." I don't think it's too much to ask for, honestly. Especially if they're going to beg the development team to "fix" it. (Especially after [some people] begged the development team to take away a system that demanded you not be AFK - though they may not be the same people).

Personally I liked the previous system more, but I would have given a small amount of SP per kill regardless of actions so you didn't walk away from a fight with 0SP occasionally. That was a real bummer about that system. A minimum cap of 50 SP and a hard cap of 500SP would have been nice, though. Just my opinion, I know it's an unpopular one.

When I first experienced it in Beta I thought "Sweet, a system where people can AFK and no one cares, but they don't get the benefit of receiving EXP/SP also. How casual!"

[Kilta_Firelotus]

hoto so far your wall of text = I play ffxiv to much [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Sorry that was a poor and untruthful example and sounds more like a cry for help. Games are not real life get over it.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] TONS of ppl dualboxed in ffxi. Yet no one really cried over it.

[Shai]

You're also not really telling me how it affects Player 1.

I play 2 characters evenly so I generate 2x more resources. That sounds fair, actually.

You know, this wasn't the case in FFXI because PS2 didn't have the option to have multiple PS2 accounts going (easily) or any way to dual wield accounts on 1 PS2. FFXIV does not have this limitation so no one gets burned. Player 1 could just as easily get 2x the benefits himself if he didn't have the false notion that acting within the rules of the game is cheating or immoral or unfair.

Player 2 is putting in more effort. He gets more in return. Player 1 doesn't and cries about it on a forum because it's not fair because he has set himself up (for whatever reason) to place a limitation on himself where one isn't necessary.

I also never said I haven't seen groups of AFK levelers. I have a static of 3 players playing 8 characters. ^^ Yep. I'm milking the system, bro. You could too. Everyone in this thread could. I don't feel bad about it. When the game costs money I guarantee those 3 players will be down to 4 characters, or at most 6 characters. SE still generates 2x more money. They generate 2x more SP on leves. Everyone wins but the people crying it's not fair when they could be doing it themselves.

I just hope SE doesn't listen to those people - and considering they are losing money, I'm really hoping I win this little debate for the time being because it will be bigger return for them in the future.

[Shai]

...and last but not least...

I was giving a response to how additional characters and people who simply take the easy way in life

...and what's wrong with the easy way of life? It's not morally wrong to take the easy road. It's not even necessarily more rewarding, is it? The challenging road comes with its own benefits - and apparently the high & mighty feeling that you're morally right because you did it the "tough" and "manly" way but others decided to take advantage of a situation to get ahead in life.

That's life. Too bad.

[Hotohori]

Sorry if you misunderstood I don't give a *** how you play kilta but I care that the system of the game creates double the normal rewards for zero additional effort when it comes to just having an additional character. I was giving a response to how additional characters and people who simply take the easy way in life are currently effecting others. I didn't call out anyone specifically and my comments were are pretty correct about the system of skill and material generation in the game.