Amdapor Keep Changes Unfair

[civilpaw]

Uh guys, you're not supposed to complete everything the game has to offer within a week.

What's done is done. It's not like they're going to go through their logs to find out who was taking advantage of the bad dungeon mechanics and wipe out their tokens.


How was running heroics over and over and over in WoW anymore fun?

Thats the thing... I never had to. I ran each heroic maybe 3-4 times before getting in to raiding. Hell, in BC I entered Karazhan within 30 min of hitting 70 and was still partly in greens. And we cleared the first 3 bosses in the first night.
Now that might say that the content was too easy (and the first few bosses in Kara were), but the fact of the matter is that it wasnt a huge grind to get in to raiding. It never was in WoW. Not even in classic did I have to go thru this sorta grind to get to the real content.

Not to mention, there were how many heroics available in each expansion? This game has 2 dungeons, only 1 of which is viable. And it was the gear you got from the heroic bosses you took in to raids. And while the Justice system did come about with heroics in BC, you didnt need that gear to start raiding. it just helped supplement bad drop luck.

[Sylve]

Thats the thing... I never had to. I ran each heroic maybe 3-4 times before getting in to raiding. Hell, in BC I entered Karazhan within 30 min of hitting 70 and was still partly in greens. And we cleared the first 3 bosses in the first night.
Now that might say that the content was too easy (and the first few bosses in Kara were), but the fact of the matter is that it wasnt a huge grind to get in to raiding. It never was in WoW. Not even in classic did I have to go thru this sorta grind to get to the real content.

Not to mention, there were how many heroics available in each expansion? This game has 2 dungeons, only 1 of which is viable. And it was the gear you got from the heroic bosses you took in to raids. And while the Justice system did come about with heroics in BC, you didnt need that gear to start raiding. it just helped supplement bad drop luck.

Well, clearly you joined in close to the launch of WOTLK. You also clearly didn't play a Tank.
Why do i know that?
Easy. Originally Karazan had a fairly long attunement process, involving several unpopular Heroic Dungeons. This could take 5 hours or so, depending on how lucky you were in /Trade getting a good group to do all the dungeons for the Key parts.
You certainly didn't tank Karazan with Greens, because you needed the Heroic blues/purples to achieve Defense cap so you didn't get crit. Many Raiding Guilds wouldn't take a Warrior Tank if they didn't have a Suneater.

Also, specifically at your comment over the number of dungeons, all of WoW's Heroics were just the leveling Dungeons with a level cap mode.
Something which, by the way, is coming to us soon. They already announced that 2 of the current dungeons will have Hard Modes in 2.1.
IIRC there were no 70 only non-heroic dungeons. They were 68 - 70.
As for time taken to complete an old WoW BC era Heroic, you were looking at an hour or so for Shattered Halls for one, and i still have nightmares about PuGs in Shadow Labyrinth.
Not only that, but you got 3 - 5 Badges per heroic, once a day per Heroic, and needed anywhere from 25 - 150 Badges for some of that Badge Loot.
Hell, all this at a time before the LFG tool to auto group you. Good luck finding Tanks and Healers competent enough to run half of those Heroics, and triple good luck finding DPS who know how to CC properly. Very few hunters were ever capable of Trapping properly.
And classic WoW not being a grind for raiding gear? are you kidding me? did you ever actually play WoW? The Raid attunements alone often took forever due to lack of people capable of running the required content unless you had a good Guild.

Rose tinted goggles are amazing.

AK is fine. I greatly enjoyed the entire dungeon. Chatting with the PuG tank we got between Trash pulls, and generally just taking it easy. Same for CM and TP. Im not in a rush to see all the Raid content in the first day of being 50. I'm just slowly accruing my Tomes, gathering up my gear, polishing my rotation and generally learning how to be a better Monk in Dungeon and Raid settings.

I'll be playing this game for a very long time, plenty of time to see everything whenever i happen to get there. Pity more people couldn't have my attitude.

[Rhen]

Running heroics in WoW was more fun because there was more than one dungeon that dropped endgame currency. We have 1 dungeon that drops a decent amount of stones of both kinds and at the least are forced to doing it 8 times week. 8 hours a week grinding the same dungeon is boring, shitty game design, and is generally a bad idea.

The only reward you get for clearing trash now is a larger repair bill, YAAAY. Thanks SE for shitting on your hardcore fan base, good job. I understand wanting us to kill the stuff, but make the mobs worthwhile in some small way. Make a nice, clean, fast run at least offset the repair cost if not net a tiny profit. Come on.

[civilpaw]

Running heroics in WoW was more fun because there was more than one dungeon that dropped endgame currency. We have 1 dungeon that drops a decent amount of stones of both kinds and at the least are forced to doing it 8 times week. 8 hours a week grinding the same dungeon is boring, shitty game design, and is generally a bad idea.

The only reward you get for clearing trash now is a larger repair bill, YAAAY. Thanks SE for shitting on your hardcore fan base, good job. I understand wanting us to kill the stuff, but make the mobs worthwhile in some small way. Make a nice, clean, fast run at least offset the repair cost if not net a tiny profit. Come on.

Basically this, with the exception that in WoW you also got good gear from the heroics instead of crap that was only intended to be an interim until you could afford the gear from the currency.

Heck, with the changes to the Justice system they put in to MoP, the gear you get via the currency is actually worse than the gear you get from the dungeon. The valor gear only covers 2 slots? 3? Dont remember, and it is only available for the starting tier. The higher tier stuff is from reputations... but thats a whole other can of very, very dead worms.

[Alphawins]

Running heroics in WoW was more fun because there was more than one dungeon that dropped endgame currency. We have 1 dungeon that drops a decent amount of stones of both kinds and at the least are forced to doing it 8 times week. 8 hours a week grinding the same dungeon is boring, shitty game design, and is generally a bad idea.

The only reward you get for clearing trash now is a larger repair bill, YAAAY. Thanks SE for shitting on your hardcore fan base, good job. I understand wanting us to kill the stuff, but make the mobs worthwhile in some small way. Make a nice, clean, fast run at least offset the repair cost if not net a tiny profit. Come on.

that's 8 hours a week with a zero wait time queue. add in the timer for dps classes and your looking at 12. Realistically speaking you're looking closer to 14 with failed runs factored in.

[h0tNstilettos]

I love how all the people that rushed content AND are ignoring all other content because all they want to do is get to Binding Coil NOW are complaining. Obviously WoW has more content because it has been out longer. No MMO releases with a crap ton to do, especially if you're one of the rushers that ignore 75% of the game's content to only clear end game dungeons and that's it.

If you only play an MMO to play 1 class and clear all dungeons, then done, then you should expect to run out of content fast. There's a lot more you could be doing in this game besides running AK over and over until you vomit. Did you ever consider limiting AK runs to a couple or few a day, and between those runs doing one of the many other things offered in this game like working towards your achievements? Or work on leveling a class you don't have at 50 already? Or grouping with FC friends to work on other stuff? Or working on maxing everything GC related? Or working on your minion collection?

There is a lot more to do than running AK over and over. You can easily mix that in with other stuff you haven't done yet. You people are so blinded by rushing to enter Binding Coil of Bahamut that you fail to see all the other options of stuff to do to make the grind more bearable. In all honesty I would do everything possible to avoid getting to Binding Coil before Crystal Tower comes out simply because Crystal Tower was meant to be done before Coil, and I would rather do it as intended.

I don't even have a class over level 30 yet because I have been enjoying everything the game has to offer, including starting every gathering and crafting class, plus a second battle class, and I've been playing since phase 3, phase 4 for current character. I've also been working on achievements and my minion collection. Based on current projections I will still be working on this stuff by the time the first major patch comes out.

If this is how you go into MMOs you play, then really you either shouldn't play them, or wait until the MMO you want to play has been out at least half a year to a year, or after the first couple major patches, so there is plenty more content.

EDIT due to daily limit.

Limiting the one dungeon at lvl 50 that offers any type of meaningful reward is absolutely genius, man i wish they would limit the times you can run it, maybe like 2 per month.

It is genius if you don't want to burn out.

Please show me the manual that states the proper way to play a mmo. I was under the impression you do what is fun to you. This copout is no excuse for the severe lack of endgame play this game currently has to offer. I do enjoy this game very much, but it needs more endgame options desperately and quickly to increase the player base to ensure a prosperous future.

No, it has plenty of options. You're just technically saying it needs more of the stuff you find fun. MMOs have a variety of things to do. The game doesn't revolve around just running dungeons and gearing to clear the game's current end game dungeon(s), though obviously that is a big part of the game, but not the only focus. No one said you had to play a certain way or that there's a proper way to play, but if you only enjoy doing one specific thing, such as running dungeons, then you really should expect this in a new MMO. No new MMO has an infinite amount of one specific category of activity. There's only so much that can be put into a game until patches come. It's self-centered for you to expect them to have most of that space being dungeons when they have other things to fit into the game as well for variety.

Every single MMO is like this at launch, even more so in today's world as many are so experienced playing MMOs that they can get through the stuff faster. If I wanted to I could have been at 50 already if I had spent most of my time FATE chaining and running dungeons, and if it was all I was interested in I'm sure I'd be extremely bored once I hit cap and and needed to grind tomestones. I will admit that leveling is too fast in this game mainly due to the abuse of FATEs, but even in a slower paced leveling new MMO you'll still run out of stuff to do if power-leveling to current level cap, or if this part of the game is you're only interest until a new major patch is released.

[Alphawins]

Did you ever consider limiting AK runs to a couple or few a day

Limiting the one dungeon at lvl 50 that offers any type of meaningful reward is absolutely genius, man i wish they would limit the times you can run it, maybe like 2 per month.

If this is how you go into MMOs you play, then really you either shouldn't play them, or wait until the MMO you want to play has been out at least half a year to a year, or after the first couple major patches, so there is plenty more content.

Please show me the manual that states the proper way to play a mmo. I was under the impression you do what is fun to you. This copout is no excuse for the severe lack of endgame play this game currently has to offer. I do enjoy this game very much, but it needs more endgame options desperately and quickly to increase the player base to ensure a prosperous future.

[Rhen]

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running dungeons a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

[civilpaw]

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running dungeons a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

And this is the reason we need to keep these posts going. To get the message across that the system the implemented only made the game less fun. I really want this game to be good, but if the current setup and this last patch are any indication of how they plan to handle the game, then its not looking good.

Guess what? You don't play any MMO for long, since all MMOs are a grind-fest at end-game, that's the only kind of end-game that exists.

Apparently I reached my daily post limit, what?

Guess what? Other MMOs grinds arent a single, hour long dungeon which rewards almost nothing, that you have to run 60 plus times to get STARTER gear.
What youre doing is comparing apples to some other fruit -doesnt matter which- that has poisonous spikes in it.

[Alphawins]

So, essentially, SE wants me to consider running 1 DUNGEON a part time job.

I always quit playing MMOs when they feel like work instead of play...Guess what?

Fixed
*yay for 10 character reply limit