"Fix" Speed Runs? How about fixing the real issue?

[Dashuto]

What has happened to everyone, its like 5 years went by and I stepped into bizarro world.

[Onimal]

Everquest was oine of the first that did this, hell it was the first. Trash mobs should drop Gold/Items/Cash loot. Nuff said. Or bring back the aspects of most FF games where after killing a specific trash mob, a new rare mob spawns (00.001% chance) that has a 20% chance of dropping an amazing item. FF3/6?

[Raksu]

They just make it more worse >< more trash mobs now. add some effin loot to trash!
There is a lot players that like kill mobs for money.

oh well, when free sub ends im out. end game is just boring.

[Esk]

I actually think there are a lot of options for better dungeons (and reasons to go into them and keep some trash around too).

Times waves / Mini bosses Dungeons
You have semi challenging mini bosses that retreat though the dungeon every X mins a new wave of trash spawns and moves towards you.
This happens regardless of if your on the boss or still clearing the last lot of them.

Multi mini boss / different routs / timed
You chose a patch the the dungeon at each mini boss, depending on what bosses you face (i.e the path you pick (boss allotment would be random too) this effects the area.
Options could include:
- The next mini boss and a clear patch
- A Floor puzzle? (you have to keep moving and die if not)
- A few elite mobs.
- Lot and lots of trash mobs.
- A dead end or really hard hard demon wall.
- You can double back and change path (reduces final loot volume/level)

Attack/Defence Dungeons
- Multiple locations are under attack/being attacked and your helping, mini bosses with trash support will keep spawning and attacking the opposing forces.
- Depending on the number of locations you save/capture the better the reward is.
- Between locations are mini boss fights or trash (random).
- The Final boss has more support based on what you have/haven't achieved balanced against the reward (you do really badly you just get a mini boss again but still some reward).

Assault Dungeons (8/12 man Empire beast tribe)
- Multiple waves rush your location you have to push though them shutting down the spawn/access point.
- Only one main boss spens once you only have 1 access/spawn point left.
- Spawn points can be reactivated by specific npcs (resulting in you getting attacked from behind ).

Ok i could go on for ages with ideas but still to keep this shorter..

Changes to give reasons to keep trash in dungeons:
- Specific items only come from them.
- Rare HQ materials come from them.
- Random mobs hold keys to unlock side rooms/boss rooms.
- Better Gil rewards from humanoid mobs.
- Gear drops (I'm only talking stuff we can get that the mob would be wearing and it would be Torn/damaged needing a crafter/npc to fix it)

[Shiyo]

I actually think there are a lot of options for better dungeons (and reasons to go into them and keep some trash around too).
Lots of awesome stuff

I agree, I wish dungeons were unique and fun like FFXI dungeons and not generic trash - > boss - > loot. Kind of sad they went that direction.

[Gucci_Charms]

I agree, I wish dungeons were unique and fun like FFXI dungeons and not generic trash - > boss - > loot. Kind of sad they went that direction.

Likewise. That's kind of what's holding my friends and I from really enjoying the endgame content at this point. We wish the loot system was a little more rewarding for all players as opposed to only rewarding one to three people each run. For Ifrit runs or whatever primal hard bosses, for example, we're still hoping they'd at least add one more loot box to make two treasure coffers available at the end of run. Makes it more worthwhile for every players time.

[Boyahd]

I agree, I wish dungeons were unique and fun like FFXI dungeons and not generic trash - > boss - > loot. Kind of sad they went that direction.

Finally, someone is starting to see where the true problem lies. Many of you are so set on defending this painfully generic setup with absolutely no room for improvement or uniqueness. No one is asking high level gear to be handed to them on a silver platter. What we are asking for is to put more purpose into the dungeons.

[Tenkiei]

All random loot chests have now been removed from dungeons
These items now have X% chance to drop from trash mobs.

Fixed, it's now like every other game.

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I really don't feel "trash" gives anything less than in other games the only difference is the "shiny things" don't come from the monsters themselves they come from the CHESTS. That's not something which exists the same way in other games.

[Yoona]

All random loot chests have now been removed from dungeons
These items now have X% chance to drop from trash mobs.

Fixed, it's now like every other game.

----

I really don't feel "trash" gives anything less than in other games the only difference is the "shiny things" don't come from the monsters themselves they come from the CHESTS. That's not something which exists the same way in other games.

Except the random loots throughout the dungeons are pretty trash anyways, they don't really even matter especially in the earlier levels since you just get a pat on the back and load up when you hit lv45.

Since the game is based off of currency (philosophy & mythology), the real goal is just to obtain the currency so you can buy Darklight. Anything you can get from dungeons is purely an intermediate measure and has very little impact overall. The only loots that people might care about are those items required to craft relic base items.

[Boyahd]

Oh, let's not forget that FFXI actually gave you incentive to kill trash mobs in dungeon-like settings. It's strange that a game made by the same company ELEVEN YEARS AGO has the right idea in comparison. If anything, this is a hardcore regression that makes me wonder if Yoshi_P only played Korean MMOs, the worst of them all.

Edit: Oh, with a little dash of Guild Wars 2, as it's obvious this is where he pulled the FATE system from. I hope there's an interview with him admitting this as it would be rather disgusting if he doesn't even mention the inspiration.