"Fix" Speed Runs? How about fixing the real issue?

[velrek2013]

snip

I think the problem is the mobs grant no incentive and are face rollable. At least the bosses grant a challenge, however small it is.

[Jackus]

Oh, let's not forget that FFXI actually gave you incentive to kill trash mobs in dungeon-like settings. It's strange that a game made by the same company ELEVEN YEARS AGO has the right idea in comparison. If anything, this is a hardcore regression that makes me wonder if Yoshi_P only played Korean MMOs, the worst of them all.

Edit: Oh, with a little dash of Guild Wars 2, as it's obvious this is where he pulled the FATE system from. I hope there's an interview with him admitting this as it would be rather disgusting if he doesn't even mention the inspiration.

GW2 didn't come up with it. It was actually first implemented in Warhammer.

[Jeht]

I think the problem is the mobs grant no incentive and are face rollable. At least the bosses grant a challenge, however small it is.

Face rollable for you. There's a lot of tanks out there that have a lot of problems on trash, let alone mechanics like dodging bad red stuff. Trash still provides a barrier and a learning incentive to players. Especially the few that rerolled tank and skipped lower level dungeons.

[Hik0]

you cant fix the real issue : people want gear faster than they are expected to get them.
SE expect you to spend X hour in donjon farming your stuff+ Y hour in other activities to pay repair
player want to cut X and totally remove Y.

[Zzyn]

How about fixing the REAL issue:

We, the "ELITE SLS*" (*Special Little Snowflakes) want the ultimate endgame gear RIGHT NOW with LITTLE OR NO EFFORT INVOLVED -- also we don't want EVERYONE to have it, that would make us less special...

......

If SE does this, it will ensure that the ELITE SLS players will feel super elite (and super special) a long time to come.

If SE doesn't do this, the game is doomed to fail.

/snicker :-)

I hope they just get mad and go back to WoW. Ugh. So entitled.

[Shigaru]

Wow the entitlement here.... I am struggling to think of a game that actually gave something worht while for trash mobs... I mean the whole reason we called them trash mobs... was due to trashy loot. Are you guys serious? I mean I get that you were TOTALLY exploiting the game and they fixed it. They reduced repair costs. so go kill trash mobs. I do not get at all where your coming from

I -hate- that word entitlement. Every other freaking game out there does trash right. Yes they'r trash mobs but they really really need to drop something worthwhile. This is how battleclasses make money. Let the robe wearers drop rare cloth or something. Let the demons drop good horns for high level crafting. The eyes and succubi can drop leather from their wings. I don't understand why this is hard >.< They put all these mats for sale for tomestones, they should have made them small drop chances from trash.

/snicker :-)

I hope they just get mad and go back to WoW. Ugh. So entitled.

There is is again x.x

Its not about rushing endgame gear. Its about making the stuff along the way worth it. Battle classes already have no real way to make money, this would be a huge opportunity for them.

Edit: Just so you know, I'm not a big supporter of speed runs. I just hate all the elitism in here. Trash mobs should be mildly rewarding. THey shouldn't drop ilvl 90 gear, but come on guys.

[Yshnal]

This is starting to get very tiring, upsetting, and gamebreaking for some of us. I just had to leave a dungeon because some douchebags where insisting in speedrunning through Cutter's Cry (thus making me die if I didn't want to do so)... in a duty finder group. Now I have to deal with the 15 min. lock because some people are that "nice".

And no, it's not just that I don't like to speedrun, but that I told them that I needed some of the mobs for the GC hunting log (as did two other members of the group, as they were new to that dungeon). Talk about pissing people, right? So it's not that trash mobs don't reward anything, as they were rewarding something in this case and even then every one of them wanted to speedrun it. I know that not everyone is like that and that most of you would really kill them if they gave something, but what I'm saying is that even if trash would give gil or anything else the problem would still persist. Some people want everything NOW, and they don't care about the rest.

[Zezlar]

I think the problem stems from the fact that people will be doing these dungeons hundreds, if not thousands of times. There needs to be more incentive to killing the trash. Spirit bonding is something i'm considering since i'm not getting exp/gil killing stuff.

[Noata]

It's funny how your post only strengthens my point. Here, let me point out how you tripped over your own self:

-maybe some Land L items from killing them
So you're admitting that trash mobs DO drop something. See, at least there's mobs in dungeons that CAN drop something of use in EQ2. FFXIV has NONE so far.

-GW2 you farm things like leather from them
Leather, among a vast number of different crafting materials, which are used to craft items that are pretty good for end-game.

(cont.)

no tripping here, I explained how you get a limited reward from trash mobs, When you kill trash mobs in FFXIV you get something. so how is it not similar?
also repair bills are less, also, in those games, if you do really bad in the dungeon you could walk away with a giant negative balance, Dying and repairing gear in Vindictus or EQ2 could become costly and easily outweigh any money made from a dungeon. Once again, trash mobs still drop something of use compared to FFXIV.the difference is you easily replace the currency in these games so the negative cost is less apparent. same for GW2, a couple deaths and you lost any profit you would have made from a run unless you get a useful piece of loot.

its not broken so either play the game, or leave it. sorry you cant exploit dungeons anymore.

[Ariyn]

sounds like a money management issue. just because the user sucks at finance doesn't mean the game is broken. learn ways to make money other than brute force trash pharm, and learn better ways to mitigate your repair costs.

Says the whm that doesn't take even 1/3rd the repair costs of a tank. Clearing AK costs me 3k for 1 run ... Speed runs cost me 600g. Yep that's what it was all about money management.

You want us to kill the trash I'm more then happy but give us something to compensate. Gil, white gear drops that I can spiritbond for materia, tomes, something ...

sorry you cant exploit dungeons anymore.

Is this your first MMO? Speed runs were never an exploit otherwise half the playerbase would be banned right now. Just the same in WoW and every other MMO and even the devs will tell you. The player base will always find ways to do things easier or faster that they did not think of. It's not the player bases fault that the method exsisted and they used what the game gave them to accomplish something. Many world firsts in WoW were done by using these tactics and it's the reason that right after a major content patch servers would drop for emergency maintenances to try to stop guilds from using the tactics and get a fix in. Clever use of game mechanics is NOT an exploit