"Fix" Speed Runs? How about fixing the real issue?

[Suirieko]

Let's go look at FFXI, specifically the endgame events:

Dynamis: All trash mobs dropped Relic AF, currencies, and rare crafting materials, which are required for relic weapons. Some even extend the time limit duration in Dynamis.

Limbus: Every mobs dropped limbus currency, which are highly valuable, and can be sold for a lot of money, or used to buy rare gears, that can only be purchased with the said limbus currencies. (Aka Ancient Beastmen's coin.)

Salvage: You enter with extreme status/gear limitations. To fix this, you need cells. what drop cells? Mobs.

Sky and Sea: Most mobs are skipped via sneak or invis, or people just avoid them if they are true sight, and generally go directly to boss or targeted mobs that are part of the NM system chain. However, some mobs have to be fought to farm key items to sub bosses for the primary bosses.

Considering that a good majority of FFXIV players also played FFXI, and hell i'm willing to bet that many of them even participated in any of these events. IS it REALLY that surprising, that people feel that it's unfair to kill trash mobs that give absolutely no benefit whatsoever? Again, please don't even try to say "BUT OMG YOU GET ACCESS TO THE BOSS", it doesn't really fly.

Face it. you would be doing the same thing if you're in the position to.

[Suirieko]

So, let's get this straight then, based on skimming through this thread. Those who opposed speed runs feel that killing trash mobs are more than good enough incentive, since after all, you 'are supposed' to kill every mobs before getting to boss. Great.

Let's say you need 900 tomestones for getting the relic. You mean to tell me that you're totally cool with spending 60+ minutes per run, killing trash mobs over and over again, and losing money due to repair, and get little benefit out of it, and you're fine doing that 9 times in a row? Go ahead and try to claim that getting crafting materials is good enough incentive. I'm sure someone would be willing to buy whatever you make with it given how of little use most craftable gears are.

And of course, those who don't want to have to kill trash mobs unless necessary, are being accused of "feeling entitled', and god It's even amusing that speed runs are considered an "exploit".

[Suirieko]

Call me entitled, call me "cry baby", call me elitist. Call me what you want, it doesn't matter. I'll endure whatever SE wants to do and keep playing. Frankly, I feel the dungeons aren't even innovative (Some ARE fun, don't get me wrong. I quite enjoy Praetorium), and that SE could've done better given how well they did with FFXI's dungeons/end game events.

Don't get me wrong:

I do understand that speed runs CAN ruin the experience for those who are experiencing these storyline dungeons the first time. I absolutely get that and I agree their experience shouldn't be ruined. I feel that everyone should be allowed to experience the cutscene the first time they are in that dungeon. And no, despite that you CAN view the dungeon from the Inn, the experience is still ruined, you get the best experience by witnessing the cutscene while you're part of that game.

I feel that improvements are in order:

1) New players should be able to watch the cutscenes and not have to deal with bitching from players who have done these runs 50+ times.

2) There definitely needs to be incentive to killing these trash mobs. The current 'so called' incentives aren't good enough.

However, I feel that only nerfing speed runs all together without providing incentive to killing trash mobs is not the way to go.

(and I SERIOUSLY hate these 1000 characters limitation in replies!)

[Zfz]

after all, you 'are supposed' to kill every mobs before getting to boss.

those who don't want to have to kill trash mobs unless necessary, are being accused of "feeling entitled'

That is exactly what it is.

Boss drops and the tomes are a reward designed to be given after clearing the trash plus boss. If you think you have a right to those rewards without the trash, then you are feeling entitled no less.

You are mistaken in thinking the trash give no benefit. It's just that their benefit are rolled into the boss. This was confirmed by producer Yoshida in his Tokyo Game Show interview. So in the end we'll probably be presented with two choices:

• Speed run and get half the tomes
• Full clear and get the same number of tomes we get now

If you still have a problem with this implementation, then you are feeling entitled.

[Suirieko]

That is exactly what it is.

Boss drops and the tomes are a reward designed to be given after clearing the trash plus boss. If you think you have a right to those rewards without the trash, then you are feeling entitled no less.

You are mistaken in thinking the trash give no benefit. It's just that their benefit are rolled into the boss. This was confirmed by producer Yoshida in his Tokyo Game Show interview. So in the end we'll probably be presented with two choices:

• Speed run and get half the tomes
• Full clear and get the same number of tomes we get now

If you still have a problem with this implementation, then you are feeling entitled.

How many other games have you played where raids that contained mobs that dropped virtually nothing.

I mentioned FFXI's trash mobs earlier, in Dynamis, Limbus and Salvage. Keep that in mind.

Runes of Magic dungeons dropped CRAPTONS of gears and materials, and even recipe, ranging from common to rare, they also dropped medicines as well, and various other items. Most players collect these to make money.

Scarlet Blade dungeons actually had a chance of dropping rare gears (which are very valuable) and items, including stardust gems and slivers. All trash mobs dropped money at least, and occasionally potions and other consumables. In fact, Scarlet Blade (despite how horribly boring and unimaginative their dungeons are), actually gave us a reason to actually WANT to kill their trash mobs.


In fact, now that I think of it. FFXIV has been the only mmorpg that contains trash mobs that drop virtually nothing.

So based on the past experience, are you really going to keep trying to tell me I'm feeling entitled, or am I really driving my point home on how pointless the trash mob killing if there's no benefits out of it, when so many other mmorpgs actually give benefits for killing trash mobs.

And once again, killing trash mobs just to unlock the boss is not a benefit, nor should it be an incentive to kill em in the first place.

Bottomline: I'm not a big fan of speed runs, but I can see why people want to do speed runs. Wanna eliminate this? Give a better reason to kill trash mobs.

[Luvbunny]

How many other games have you played where raids that contained mobs that dropped virtually nothing.

I mentioned FFXI's trash mobs earlier, in Dynamis, Limbus and Salvage. Keep that in mind.

Dynamis mobs drop currency, forgotten items, relic accesories, damaged relic pieces - actually all the things you want They can easily make end game dungeon starting from level 41 drops "endgame" currency similar to Abyssea cruors that you can use to purchase tomes. So if you kill all the trash mobs you end up with double the tomes you are getting should you use the currency to purchase. Seekers of Adoulin Delve trash mobs also drops plasm - 50 per kills. Granted killing all the bosses give you 60k plasm, but for "casual groups" they can get 6k plasm killing trash.

[Rekujen]

Duty Finder

2 options

Story Mode
Normal Mode

Story Mode = Nobody can move if someone is watching cut scene, if the cut scene is roughly 30 seconds and they stay on it for 3 minutes? they get automatically booted (to prevent harassment) this will automatically find a new player. The reason for the boot is simple, some trolls will stay on the cut scene just to grief the players.

Normal Mode = No Cut Scenes

done.

[Rex]

Duty Finder

2 options

Story Mode
Normal Mode

Story Mode = Nobody can move if someone is watching cut scene, if the cut scene is roughly 30 seconds and they stay on it for 3 minutes? they get automatically booted (to prevent harassment) this will automatically find a new player. The reason for the boot is simple, some trolls will stay on the cut scene just to grief the players.

Normal Mode = No Cut Scenes

done.

...Just make the cutscenes progress automatically. Don't wait for the player to advance it.

[ToraoKoga]

I don't understand the problem so please enlighten me.