[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Dwill]

Snip

Heh, I think having Gravity do anything else than what we've seen in past Final Fantasy games would pretty much kill the theme (speaking on a personal basis). Not saying they can't do it but I don't think it would look like a Final Fantasy Demi effect if they ever introduce it in with any other effect that the broken one.

Selene's Haste-like effect being mediocre for anyone not a Black Mage is due to how Spell Speed and Skill Speed work in this game and honestly, I am all for Square Enix fixing this. Minus Black Mage, everyone tries to avoid Skill/Spell Speed if they can and that means something is totally wrong with the stat itself. Apparently, they are going to fix this in the expansion so let's cross our fingers on this one.

While I agree that they could have taken a totally different direction on the job, they didn't and honestly, every guess we take at their motives would purely be conjecture. The thing is that unless the job becomes broken, a total rework is highly unlikely so the best course of action to improve the job as a whole would be to focus on our already existing strength and weaknesses to see what could be changed.

[Akiza]

The Summoner function well as a DoT class but not as a Pet class. If the developers intended players to be spam dots and only use Garuda Egi then they succeeded. If the developers intended it to be a Pet class with every pet having a reason to be utilized then they failed.

[Mjytresz]

Let me put this into perspective for you.

Heh, I think having Shadow Flare do anything else than what we've seen in past Final Fantasy games would pretty much kill the theme (speaking on a personal basis). Not saying they can't do it but I don't think it would look like a Final Fantasy Shadow Flare effect if they ever introduce it in with any other effect that the broken one.

Go sit in the corner.

Selene's Haste-like effect being mediocre for anyone not a Black Mage is due to how Spell Speed and Skill Speed work in this game and honestly, I am all for Square Enix fixing this. Minus Black Mage, everyone tries to avoid Skill/Spell Speed if they can and that means something is totally wrong with the stat itself. Apparently, they are going to fix this in the expansion so let's cross our fingers on this one.

And then...

The thing is that unless the job becomes broken, a total rework is highly unlikely so the best course of action to improve the job as a whole would be to focus on our already existing strength and weaknesses to see what could be changed.

So, let me get this straight.
SMN is currently suffering from an identity crisis, so it technically can't be "broken" since it's not passing or failing as either of its original designs. So a "total" rework is completely out of the question.
However, Haste, which has a defined function, is broken so it's likely to be nominated for a rework?

Yes, fix my Honda with 8 wheels. I don't want it to be a real car with a defined purpose. An illegal octo-car works just fine for me.

The Summoner function well as a DoT class but not as a Pet class. If the developers intended players to be spam dots and only use Garuda Egi then they succeeded. If the developers intended it to be a Pet class with every pet having a reason to be utilized then they failed.

The only reason it functions well as a DoT class is because the majority of the damage is currently coming from DoTs.

But this class is "working as intended" so no rework is necessary.
Close thread pls.

[Exstal]

So, let me get this straight.
SMN is currently suffering from an identity crisis, so it technically can't be "broken" since it's not passing or failing as either of its original designs. So a "total" rework is completely out of the question.
However, Haste, which has a defined function, is broken so it's likely to be nominated for a rework?

Yes, fix my Honda with 8 wheels. I don't want it to be a real car with a defined purpose. An illegal octo-car works just fine for me.
.

You're partially right. SMN is 70% the other class it usually is in every other Final Fantasy and 30% summon (although not Black Mage level). Nothing wrong with that, some people just feel it should be 70% pet, 30% sub-class (WHM, BLM, TMM, whathaveyou). Haste, which is universally garbage in the game, needs to be fixed because it is broken.

I believe the pet class will be Beastmaster or Puppeteer or even Blue Mage.

[MartaDemireux]

.

I said what I said with the knowledge of her previous posts. It's no coincidence that FFXIV's ACN shares abilities with FFTA2's ACN. They're the only 2 ACN in the franchise. However the FFTA2 ACN did learn classic Time Magic (3 out of its 8 abilities) if not in name then at least in effect. FFTA2's ACN was also directly unlocked by learning Time Magic. That means FFTA2's ACN is related to Time Magic and by extension FFXIV's ACN is related to it as well having been at least partially based on FFTA2's ACN. FFTA2's ACN is effectively a combination of Time Mage and Black Mage and should your ACN in that game only level in that one line of progression they'll only have access to Black Magic and Time Magic for their second set of abilities. The correlation is all there, FFXIV simply took the Black Magic aspect over the Time Magic aspect for its ACN but did include some Time Magic via additional effects and pet abilities. Future class abilities could in fact expand on the Time Magic aspect ACN has had attributed to it in it's previous appearance. Before Time Magic was it's own specialization it was both White and Black Magic. If we look to Rydia as the closest incarnation to our current Summoner we can see that some of her Black Magic is turned into Time Magic such as Stop.

As far as Gravity is concerned, Mjytresz is correct in that it wouldn't have to have the exact effects that it did in the series. FFXI is a good example of this as it had the Gravity line of spells but they functioned differently. They slowed the enemy's movement speed and reduced their evasion. Even FFTA2's ACN's Death could be brought to FFXIV's ACN. It could be changed to sacrfiice your pet in a new mechanic (fairy's could be a burst AoE heal, egi's could be a burst AoE attack) or to grant Aetherflow charges etc.

There are many people who believe that people shouldn't stop bullying but people should teach children, and by extension adults, to defend themselves. You'll never end bullying, but that won't stop people from trying.

I realize this but what of those who cannot defend themselves due to mental and developmental disabilities? People online like to believe everyone is perfectly capable of anything they themselves are capable of but it's simply not the case. I've met players with varying degrees of autism for example that literally cannot defend themselves or learn how to defend themselves.The thing with these forums is that we do not know who has outlying circumstances and as such should avoid bullying on them. Bully whomever you want in person you know has the capability to learn how to defend themselves but keep it off the internet where you do not know who you are talking to and what they are or are not capable of.

[Akiza]

Summoner should be a Pet Job anyway since thats how they function in mmorpgs with DoT secondary class. Developers should make the Pet more detailed, intimidating and give the Summoner summoning magic
Give each pet utilities Buff, Debuff and AoE skills
Summon Ifrit to do Eruption and Radiant Plumes that leaves a 30s Burning Effect
Summon Titan provide a defense buff and shield
Summon Garuad AoE wind damage that causes Wind Burn for 30s and fire a blast of wind around her

[dragonfire8974]

@marta

You're taking a tertiary connection between ffxiv and time Mage. None of the acn abilities in ffxiv have any connection to time magic, just a name connection to another class from a side chain of games that works very different from all other ff franchises that shares 35% of its abilities with the time Mage, if that as lvl 5 haste is normally a monster ability. That's why the connection doesn't work.

Acn has ruin, and a number of black Magic spells. No connection to time magic aside from that very tenuous one diagrammed above

[Dyvid]

I wonder if this would be such a hot topic if SE finally released personal LB animation and FC summoning.

[Shikiseki]

Well.. seeing as the Dark Summoner is casting Light Succor, Gravity force and Stop, Arcanists might step into time magic to replace the missing Time Mage job in this game (much like BLM got Swiftcast which is basically quicken and Selene getting Skill/Spellspeed buffs).

But that aside, I doubt those will be SMN exclusive spells, due to the fact that we'll already use 2 of the new level cap skills for new summons only. And light succor is probably a remnant of the SMN/SCH split..

[DarkmoonVael]

Yes i would like to see the summoner class reworked. However, and big however here, i believe any reworking of this class will have to happen with this rumoured complete class system overhall that is being talked about by the devs. My issue isnt with "this is what summoners in previous FF games did", as all the previous FF games had difference in the summoning abilities/classes, some differences more nauanced than others between the games. I understand that FF14 is not trying to copy the classes directly from the previous games, but to try and recreate these iconic FF classes in an MMO setting. My problem is this: with summoners and scholars, both of them feel like they have an identity crisis. I believe the development and implementation of both these jobs has suffered greatly since they seem to have been the great experiment on wether one class can lead to 2 seperate jobs, and it feels like each is holding the other back, not only in flavour, but mechanic wise. I can understand a class like this being the first to undergo this 1 class, 2 job experiement. A job crystal brings 5 new abilities normally, but with pets you can give them significantly more abilities, thus circumventing the 5 ability from job crystal limit. I believe that if these 2 jobs were to come from 2 seperate classes, they would feel more unique and distinct, and not be constrained from the limitaions of spells that a healer class can use that a dps also has access to and vice-versa. Dont get me wrong, i love summoner and scholar, but they just dont feel like 2 complete jobs do in the way white mage or black mage does (ok maybe this is a little subjective, but i am sure you can understand my point here). Summoner has more than likely been constrained by the fact it has to share the majority of its abilities with scholar, and vice versa.

I would love to see how summoner would have turned out if it came from its own seperate, unique and distinct class, unconstrained by the fact that its abilities have to be shared with a healer class.