Warrior MACROS Please!

[Jyoeru]

Otherwise known as /wait 3. Which is why these sorts of macros are a bad idea. Building one second of dead time into each three-hit combo will catch up with you. As will all the times you have to run out of AOE and end up out of range or facing the wrong way right when ability #2 is supposed to go off, making you miss out on both of the last two hits.

Macros: Good idea.
Macros consolidating buffs: Debatable idea.
Macros dumbing down your rotations: Bad idea.

You say that with the gusto of good authority; like you know I can't possibly be doing it right. I tank better than at least 80% of the player base if I had to guess--based on all the tanks I've had to heal on my WHM. And that is being super modest and not in regard to primal HM tanking +. I am only level 49 so far, so my max experience is up to AV.

If you know what you're doing, then you can hit macro button, run/jump out of AOE (jumping keeps you from running back in just in case your macro goes off while running), and then run back in right as the AOE cast is done and still be home in time for your 2nd macro attack. No, it's not perfect. Sure, I've missed some opportunities. The problem with your argument is that you assume a move mechanic will be going off every time you have started a combo. This is not as frequent as you might think. Keep in mind that my Heavy Swing is on its own hotkey since it opens 2 different combo paths (which is how macros SHOULD be thought about, so yeah, a 3-combo macro is stupid, I agree). Most of the time I am running out of something, I have either just finished my combo, or just started it, or cast something else different. I have about a 1 in 8 chance of being stuck mid macro combo when a move mechanic is activated. My macro goes off just a hair after my GCD resets. I am okay with that. If I had to manage 6 more buttons to do everything manually, I'd likely screw up rotations and miss out on a fluid pulling experience.

I rarely have any issues because of my macros missing or missing a "second of dead time" into each 3-hit-combo, because my macros are split up according to a 2nd rotation. IE: I have a macro for skull sunder --> butcher's block (that also has an independent mercy stroke function so that when I can use mercy stroke, it will be used first, then the rest of the macro applies), and one for maim --> storm's path. At best, I lose .5 seconds for each 2 abilities cast. I'd like to see your science for how perfectly you execute your rotations to validate how you're losing 0 time when working rotations.

What you mean to say is that you don't like most macros, and think no one else should either. That you are bad with using macros, therefore everyone else is, too.

I am not a fan of this whole dumbing down rotation statement you made. That's an ignorant blanket statement which is unfair and elitist and, in the case of your generalized talking points with lack of concrete data and proof to the contrary, completely wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If anything, macros make tanking too easy, sure. But for people like me who prefer to be optimized via efficiency, it's the way we roll. If you want 30 hotkeys and you can hit everything you mean to hit perfectly and always at the right time, then congratulations, you're a better tank than me. Too bad we can't have a tank-off, though. I'd really love to see you in action.

Hit me up if you want to learn how to macro right

[SpookyGhost]

Alright, so, here's basically why using a macro for all 3 combos is a bad idea:

The /wait 2.5 command is actually /wait 3, which means you are missing .5 seconds every hit of your combo macro, which will add up... pretty quickly. Manually pressing each button, which is pretty easy, gives you 0s downtime. You just hit the first button, then mash the 2nd button, then mash the 3rd, then repeat. I understand wanting to be lazy (had macros for my combos way back when too) but you're just doing a worse job than you could be. Since you're leveling WAR I can tell you from experience that our most useful tool is Inner Beast - now, how do you get access to using Inner Beast? Building Wrath. You could hit Infuriate, but Infuriate isn't always up. The only other way to build Wrath is through combos (and weaving in Vengeance and Berserk which, like Infuriate, won't always be off cooldown) and the faster you build Wrath the quicker you'll be able to use Inner Beast. It may not seem like it now in places like Brayflox, Darkhold, AV, etc. but if you ever touch Turn 1 with your WAR you will be desperately wanting those extra seconds and those extra IBs.

Combo macros in lower level dungeons are relatively harmless, rarely will you be getting hit super hard and need that IB, but once you make your way into 50 content you'll start seeing how incredibly annoying they can be.

Also, don't jump out of AOEs, there's a positional update delay when you jump and if you were jumping near the end of the cast you're likely going to get hit.

[Jyoeru]

Alright, so, here's basically why using a macro for all 3 combos is a bad idea:

The /wait 2.5 command is actually /wait 3, which means you are missing .5 seconds every hit of your combo macro, which will add up... pretty quickly. Manually pressing each button, which is pretty easy, gives you 0s downtime. You just hit the first button, then mash the 2nd button, then mash the 3rd, then repeat. I understand wanting to be lazy (had macros for my combos way back when too) but you're just doing a worse job than you could be. Since you're leveling WAR I can tell you from experience that our most useful tool is Inner Beast - now, how do you get access to using Inner Beast? Building Wrath. You could hit Infuriate, but Infuriate isn't always up. The only other way to build Wrath is through combos (and weaving in Vengeance and Berserk which, like Infuriate, won't always be off cooldown) and the faster you build Wrath the quicker you'll be able to use Inner Beast. It may not seem like it now in places like Brayflox, Darkhold, AV, etc. but if you ever touch Turn 1 with your WAR you will be desperately wanting those extra seconds and those extra IBs.

Combo macros in lower level dungeons are relatively harmless, rarely will you be getting hit super hard and need that IB, but once you make your way into 50 content you'll start seeing how incredibly annoying they can be.

Also, don't jump out of AOEs, there's a positional update delay when you jump and if you were jumping near the end of the cast you're likely going to get hit.

You ignored most of what I said, I think. I don't have 3-combo macros. I am not having any of the issues you speak of. We can chat again when I've hit 50 and see all these problems I am going to encounter. Again. people are going on this tangent about missing .5 sec XYZ as though they hit every single button every single time the absolute moment it's up for use. Wrong. You don't. I bet if we had a contest to see who used the most abilities (and correctly for the sake of rotation arguments) during a fight, you'd find that macro-using tanks who knew what they were doing will have as much (and probably more) ability execution than people who manually punch in every single thing.

Not sure about the positional delay. I jump when I am halfway to safety, or usually right when I start moving away. If I feel like the 2nd command in the macro will go off while moving, thus putting me on auto-face and running back towards the mob during AOE, I will jump to keep auto-face from happening.

[SpookyGhost]

Rrrrright I read that you don't have all 3 macro'd, that still means you have 2 macro'd together, which means a .5s loss every combo. That adds up over the course of a longer fight, see: Turn 1, etc. Also I think you're not considering exactly how much time .5s is. If I mash on each one, I'll get my ability out significantly sooner than you would. Also, on top of that, if I hesitated to press the button then you'd be open to the same delay - which would be even more consequential for you.

But uh. Do what you want I guess. Just saying, it's not hard to press 3 buttons as opposed to 2 and you'll be at an advantage whereas having a macro gives you literally nothing but a .5s delay between the two hits. @_@

[Jyoeru]

Rrrrright I read that you don't have all 3 macro'd, that still means you have 2 macro'd together, which means a .5s loss every combo. That adds up over the course of a longer fight, see: Turn 1, etc. Also I think you're not considering exactly how much time .5s is. If I mash on each one, I'll get my ability out significantly sooner than you would. Also, on top of that, if I hesitated to press the button then you'd be open to the same delay - which would be even more consequential for you.

But uh. Do what you want I guess. Just saying, it's not hard to press 3 buttons as opposed to 2 and you'll be at an advantage whereas having a macro gives you literally nothing but a .5s delay between the two hits. @_@

The delay is inconsequential. At this point, from what I've seen, the issues I should be having aren't present. I already said I will keep your speculative reasoning in mind for fights like Turn 1. As this game is still somewhat new, I would also make the argument that the .5 second delay is unintended and will be fixed at some point in time. If SE would have given me a rotation option as opposed to using the delay command, then I would go that route instead. Just doing what I am given to work with. And considering how much time .5 seconds is, if you mashed on each key, you have quite the chance at hitting the key .01 seconds before GCD, thus having to press it again (presuming you registered a miss) and thus getting that same .5 sec delay if not longer.

You hesitating to press combo 3 button does not make my delay longer because I am open to the same error. I don't hit combo 3. That's part of the macro. I might hesitate hitting combo 2, but again, so might you. You have greater chance to hit the wrong button, or get distracted by something and reset your combo than I do missing. It's not 3 buttons. It's six (because you're forgetting about skull sunder vs. maim openers in your statement + my mercy stroke command in one of the macros).

What you're telling me is that you are basing your decisions on arbitrary math and not actual comparisons or practice. While your logic is intact from a mathematical standpoint, your outcomes are not because you have no point of comparison it seems. Now, if you told me that you played like me at one point, and started having major issues at Turn 1 and so on, and had to go back to a manual process to correct issues, then we might have an advancement in discussion. So far, all I hear is speculation that seems accurate on the surface, but falls short in the proof because it's based on one and only one factor (which is a modifiable variable as I mentioned), and thus can't be used to prove outcomes.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I strongly believe manual mode brings negligible benefit to the table, which is based on experience of doing both methods. When and if they ever fix that delay, I will likely be better off for mastering macros than people who insist on having every single ability hotkeyed--which presumes I am already not competitive with you at this point because of the user-error factor that I think really negates most of the anti-macro discussion.

[Bixby]

...

My post was needlessly curt and rude. I apologize.

What it really comes down to is that I'm just not a fan of posts that advocate half-second waits without going into the trade-offs. Players new to macros (the kind who'd find this thread after a search) aren't going to know about the rounding, and they likely aren't going to think about the subtler negative points.

I personally would not use a /wait 3, especially on a WAR (because of Wrath stacks), because those guaranteed half-seconds, on top of the lack of action queueing for macros, add up. Yes, raw hotkeys can get delayed by circumstances as well, but that only happens a few times a fight, vs. every single time with a macro. I think it's important for new players to know about those issues before they get excited about the possibilities for macroing main rotations.

As this game is still somewhat new, I would also make the argument that the .5 second delay is unintended and will be fixed at some point in time.

The rounding is intended and won't be fixed.

[Jyoeru]

My post was needlessly curt and rude. I apologize.

What it really comes down to is that I'm just not a fan of posts that advocate half-second waits without going into the trade-offs. Players new to macros (the kind who'd find this thread after a search) aren't going to know about the rounding, and they likely aren't going to think about the subtler negative points.

I personally would not use a /wait 3, especially on a WAR (because of Wrath stacks), because those guaranteed half-seconds, on top of the lack of action queueing for macros, add up. Yes, raw hotkeys can get delayed by circumstances as well, but that only happens a few times a fight, vs. every single time with a macro. I think it's important for new players to know about those issues before they get excited about the possibilities for macroing main rotations.

The rounding is intended and won't be fixed.

Interesting note you make about the lack of desire to modify the macro delay. I still think the long-term comparison would prove nominally in favor of someone who is good at managing all of the keys and execution of the abilities in near-perfect timing. I guess we will have to hope someone does the maths on this some day using real figures. Additionally, they may not want to modify how macros work today, but in time, their opinion might change. My point in wanting to use macros isn't to make my job super easy and pointless--it's to manage hotkeys so that I minimize the risk of resetting my combo orders and to keep my access to my keys manageable. In my view, if I can't access what I need in the 22 keys I use currently, then I am going to screw up how I play, because frankly, 22 keys is a lot to work with and memorize. If I have to add 4 more keys to that, I am going to miss executions and probably have to go into click modes which might mean missing mechanics and related. That is admittedly a failure on my part as a player, but I am okay with that reality, because as I said, 22 keys is a lot to utilize regularly. I think that is a fair observation.

PS: I apologize for my snappy reply. You seem like a level-headed individual. I just don't like being blatantly dismissed as I took your post as coming across. Cheers.

Let me also add some more logic to this debate. Basically for every 5 macro'd attacks I execute, you get 1 more attack in than I do (.5 x 5 = 2.5 which is the total of a GCD, which is to say that while you are attacking .5 sec faster than me, I don't lose an attack in the rotation until we've hit that 2.5 sec of accumulated lag).

Since I only have 2 attacks on a 3 sec wait macro (remember, heavy swing is manual, skull sunder is manual, and maim is manual, only the combo attacks are on the 3 sec wait macro), that means that for every 15 attacks I do, you end up with 16. If we are casting abilities about every 2.5 seconds, this means you get an "extra" attack over me about every 40 seconds (2.5 x 3 = 7.5 x 5 (every 5 attacks = lost attack for me) = 37.5 seconds). Considering that we also execute other attacks in the rotation, such as fracture, which are not macroed in my world, AND we have move mechanics and what not, you effectively realize one more attack than I do about every minute of fighting.

Yes, in a 15 minute battle, that's a huge deficit on my part (presuming perfect execution and rotation on your part, which I think we should offer some handicap to you for that because I don't buy 100% effectiveness for your 30:24 ratio of button presses or so). But, is it a game breaker? I doubt it. I should be maintaining my aggro even with the deficit because the true impact of the deficit isn't until that first minute of fighting has hit and I have "fallen behind" by one attack. But I should have setup enough in my rotation to have near the same aggro you do. As long as I am holding aggro, I am doing my "job." Sure, I lose 15 attacks worth of DPS in the entire fight, but I promise you none of this game's mechanics are dependent on us getting 100% of our attacks in. Everything is built with room for error.

No, I don't care about being a super pro elitist tank. So, I am okay with my results as long as my group is winning

[Zeronic]

I use macro's but I oppose the wait command in a battle macro. I may move, or need to change plans, but that macro still kicks in. Or sometimes it doesn't. So for your normal rotation Don't do it.
Using buff macro's or the lot, depends, I sometimes use em if the need ain't to high so I can just use whatever CD I have.
Macro's I use are mainly for the party or healer so they know whats up.
Holmgang
/micon "Holmgang"
/ac "Holmgang" <t>
/wait
/p Holmgangused. Chained together and HP won't drop <1. Please heal! <se.6>

Provoke
/micon "provoke"
/ac "Provoke" <t>
/wait
/p Provokeused on <t> <se.7>

Thrill of Battle
/macroicon "Thrill of Battle"
/ac "Thrill of Battle" <me>
/wait
/p Thrill of Battle used, Stoneskin effect UP <se.12>

Berserk
/micon "Berserk"
/ac "Berserk" <me>
/wait 18.5
/p Nearly pacified, please use Esuna/ Leeches <se.7>

The last one is actually one of my favorites. Since it warns the healer on time to dispell the pacification.
Thus I can use berserk freely without being worried of pacify. (also nice if you just want that extra DPS or wrath stack)
The /wait before a /p command makes sure that the text is only spammed when the skill actually activates. so you don't get over 8000 notifications while spamming the button like a madman

[Mailstrum]

to the guy using wait timers between his combo attacks... Thats a very bad idea at 50. when you have really geared DPS smashing face on the boss you want to bust out your combo as fast as possible. my recast time is 2.4 second. 7.2 seconds of total combo CDs. Using wait timers of 2.5 is actually 3.0 so you have 9 seconds... PER combo. So that means you are getting 6 combos per min and i am getting 8 combos per min. Take that over a 5min boss fight and i am getting 10 more combos per boss fight... Thats alot of damage you are missing per boss fight and a lot of threat you are missing on the boss.

[Truefaith87]

Just a heads up on a change i made to my own personal bars, changed up my 3-in-1 to a 4-in-1, removed Internal Release, and replaced it with Haymaker. Personally i find slow effects VERY rarely, if at all, used, and they are quite beneficial in runs where the targets aren't immune to the effect. the 4-in-1 is as follows now, for macro priorities sake.
/micon "Heavy Swing"
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>
/ac "Haymaker" <t>
/ac "Heavy Swing" <t>
/ac "Tomahawk" <t>
Haymaker seems to roughly produce the same amount of emnity as a skull sunder used in a chain as well, but then again that could be just luck on the hits for me. Another small change to absolutely make sure the Heavy Swing landed and not Haymaker was to change my SS > BB /micon from BB to SS. Added benefit of it all? Haymaker on a WAR just looks awesome.