Warrior MACROS Please!

[Jyoeru]

My post was needlessly curt and rude. I apologize.

What it really comes down to is that I'm just not a fan of posts that advocate half-second waits without going into the trade-offs. Players new to macros (the kind who'd find this thread after a search) aren't going to know about the rounding, and they likely aren't going to think about the subtler negative points.

I personally would not use a /wait 3, especially on a WAR (because of Wrath stacks), because those guaranteed half-seconds, on top of the lack of action queueing for macros, add up. Yes, raw hotkeys can get delayed by circumstances as well, but that only happens a few times a fight, vs. every single time with a macro. I think it's important for new players to know about those issues before they get excited about the possibilities for macroing main rotations.

The rounding is intended and won't be fixed.

Interesting note you make about the lack of desire to modify the macro delay. I still think the long-term comparison would prove nominally in favor of someone who is good at managing all of the keys and execution of the abilities in near-perfect timing. I guess we will have to hope someone does the maths on this some day using real figures. Additionally, they may not want to modify how macros work today, but in time, their opinion might change. My point in wanting to use macros isn't to make my job super easy and pointless--it's to manage hotkeys so that I minimize the risk of resetting my combo orders and to keep my access to my keys manageable. In my view, if I can't access what I need in the 22 keys I use currently, then I am going to screw up how I play, because frankly, 22 keys is a lot to work with and memorize. If I have to add 4 more keys to that, I am going to miss executions and probably have to go into click modes which might mean missing mechanics and related. That is admittedly a failure on my part as a player, but I am okay with that reality, because as I said, 22 keys is a lot to utilize regularly. I think that is a fair observation.

PS: I apologize for my snappy reply. You seem like a level-headed individual. I just don't like being blatantly dismissed as I took your post as coming across. Cheers.

Let me also add some more logic to this debate. Basically for every 5 macro'd attacks I execute, you get 1 more attack in than I do (.5 x 5 = 2.5 which is the total of a GCD, which is to say that while you are attacking .5 sec faster than me, I don't lose an attack in the rotation until we've hit that 2.5 sec of accumulated lag).

Since I only have 2 attacks on a 3 sec wait macro (remember, heavy swing is manual, skull sunder is manual, and maim is manual, only the combo attacks are on the 3 sec wait macro), that means that for every 15 attacks I do, you end up with 16. If we are casting abilities about every 2.5 seconds, this means you get an "extra" attack over me about every 40 seconds (2.5 x 3 = 7.5 x 5 (every 5 attacks = lost attack for me) = 37.5 seconds). Considering that we also execute other attacks in the rotation, such as fracture, which are not macroed in my world, AND we have move mechanics and what not, you effectively realize one more attack than I do about every minute of fighting.

Yes, in a 15 minute battle, that's a huge deficit on my part (presuming perfect execution and rotation on your part, which I think we should offer some handicap to you for that because I don't buy 100% effectiveness for your 30:24 ratio of button presses or so). But, is it a game breaker? I doubt it. I should be maintaining my aggro even with the deficit because the true impact of the deficit isn't until that first minute of fighting has hit and I have "fallen behind" by one attack. But I should have setup enough in my rotation to have near the same aggro you do. As long as I am holding aggro, I am doing my "job." Sure, I lose 15 attacks worth of DPS in the entire fight, but I promise you none of this game's mechanics are dependent on us getting 100% of our attacks in. Everything is built with room for error.

No, I don't care about being a super pro elitist tank. So, I am okay with my results as long as my group is winning

[Zeronic]

I use macro's but I oppose the wait command in a battle macro. I may move, or need to change plans, but that macro still kicks in. Or sometimes it doesn't. So for your normal rotation Don't do it.
Using buff macro's or the lot, depends, I sometimes use em if the need ain't to high so I can just use whatever CD I have.
Macro's I use are mainly for the party or healer so they know whats up.
Holmgang
/micon "Holmgang"
/ac "Holmgang" <t>
/wait
/p Holmgangused. Chained together and HP won't drop <1. Please heal! <se.6>

Provoke
/micon "provoke"
/ac "Provoke" <t>
/wait
/p Provokeused on <t> <se.7>

Thrill of Battle
/macroicon "Thrill of Battle"
/ac "Thrill of Battle" <me>
/wait
/p Thrill of Battle used, Stoneskin effect UP <se.12>

Berserk
/micon "Berserk"
/ac "Berserk" <me>
/wait 18.5
/p Nearly pacified, please use Esuna/ Leeches <se.7>

The last one is actually one of my favorites. Since it warns the healer on time to dispell the pacification.
Thus I can use berserk freely without being worried of pacify. (also nice if you just want that extra DPS or wrath stack)
The /wait before a /p command makes sure that the text is only spammed when the skill actually activates. so you don't get over 8000 notifications while spamming the button like a madman

[Mailstrum]

to the guy using wait timers between his combo attacks... Thats a very bad idea at 50. when you have really geared DPS smashing face on the boss you want to bust out your combo as fast as possible. my recast time is 2.4 second. 7.2 seconds of total combo CDs. Using wait timers of 2.5 is actually 3.0 so you have 9 seconds... PER combo. So that means you are getting 6 combos per min and i am getting 8 combos per min. Take that over a 5min boss fight and i am getting 10 more combos per boss fight... Thats alot of damage you are missing per boss fight and a lot of threat you are missing on the boss.

[Jyoeru]

to the guy using wait timers between his combo attacks... Thats a very bad idea at 50. when you have really geared DPS smashing face on the boss you want to bust out your combo as fast as possible. my recast time is 2.4 second. 7.2 seconds of total combo CDs. Using wait timers of 2.5 is actually 3.0 so you have 9 seconds... PER combo. So that means you are getting 6 combos per min and i am getting 8 combos per min. Take that over a 5min boss fight and i am getting 10 more combos per boss fight... Thats alot of damage you are missing per boss fight and a lot of threat you are missing on the boss.

If only two of my abilities are on the timer (and my ending combo abilities at that), then I am not sure I understand your logic.

[Mailstrum]

If only two of my abilities are on the timer (and my ending combo abilities at that), then I am not sure I understand your logic.

ok so even if you have 2 skills in combo thats still 1 second longer per combo you are taking. what you dont seem to understand is your wait time in your macro thats set to 2.5 seconds is actually 3.0. the /wait time in macros is either 2.0 or 3.0 it doesnt do .5. So even with 2 abilities you are still extending the duration of your combos and over acourse of a fight you are going to miss out on combos that you could of done if you didnt use /wait timers. Here is an example

Me playing it manually
Heavy swing
2.4 second GCD
skull sunder
2.4 second GCD
Butcher Block
2.4 second GCD

Playing with a macro
Heavy Swing
2.4 second GCD (because you do not have this skill macro'ed)
Skull Sunder(macro)
3.0 second wait time
Butcher block
2.4 second GCD

as you can see from this 1 combo you are .6 seconds behind on rotation, threat. That .6 secodns longer could be the difference between you landing BB and getting agro on the mob or the healer being one shot. Look at turn 4 and how fast and how important it is for the tank to pick up mobs quickly phase 6 of that turn new adds spawn when a dreadnought is up smashing face on 1 tank. This means healers are gonna have agro when the 2nd dread spawns. that .6 seocnds could be you picking up that new dread or it face planting your healer. Not to mention if you happen to need to use another macro between that rotation it cancels that macro out and you have to start it all over. i can tell by your tank gear that you have never tanked anything "hard" or endgame yet. Wait timer macros like this have no place in endgame content Its not optimal, and for endgame raiding you need to be on your toes.

[Jyoeru]

ok so even if you have 2 skills in combo thats still 1 second longer per combo you are taking. what you dont seem to understand is your wait time in your macro thats set to 2.5 seconds is actually 3.0. the /wait time in macros is either 2.0 or 3.0 it doesnt do .5. So even with 2 abilities you are still extending the duration of your combos and over acourse of a fight you are going to miss out on combos that you could of done if you didnt use /wait timers. Here is an example

Me playing it manually
Heavy swing
2.4 second GCD
skull sunder
2.4 second GCD
Butcher Block
2.4 second GCD

It's not 1 second. It's .6 seconds per your example. I understand that the real time execution is 3 seconds. I didn't know that prior to this discussion, but if you read up a few posts, you will see that I totally understand that issue. People are making a big enough deal about how much time .5 seconds is, let's not add to the burden for the sake of discussion. I already disclaimed I haven't tanked end-game, and that I would need to assess my views at that point in time. I guess my question for you is have you utilized efficiently placed macros and know first-hand they don't work, or are you going off of the assumptions from your math which presumes perfect execution of abilities? In your example, since those are the threat-building abilities, it wouldn't be a huge deal to remove that wait macro. That only adds one button to the rotation. That's a petty thing to debate, but if it can be proven that the lag does not affect overall tanking abilities, then using the macros should not be dismissed entirely based off of math. I mean, that's the whole point of these discussions, right? And personally, I don't think there should be a penalty for using macros. It's not feasible for someone to do a:

heavy swing
skull sunder
butcher block
heavy swing
skull sunder
butcher block

repeating macro. That would be absolutely inefficient since a number of skills and abilities one would need to use could interrupt that chain. I guess that would be my ultimate focus: having the penalty removed. I mean, in a few patches/XPs, we're going to pick up several more abilities. I, personally, would not fare well having to keybind every single ability to its own button. Macros help me clean up my skills so that I can perform efficiently. I will continue to push this limit until I can see a definitive drop in my performance which renders macros a poor choice. Until that point in time, I think the discussion is really sticking to the highly speculative realm of thought.

And to clarify one other thing, my rotation for your example is manual heavy swing, manual skull sunder macro that then realizes the .6 second lag on the butcher's block. That makes a difference in the discussion, too.

[Grelvin]

As a newbie tank just wanted to through out a thanks for the beserk macro with the call in it.

Was actually asked if I tank end game after a random dungeon due to it.

[Truefaith87]

Just a heads up on a change i made to my own personal bars, changed up my 3-in-1 to a 4-in-1, removed Internal Release, and replaced it with Haymaker. Personally i find slow effects VERY rarely, if at all, used, and they are quite beneficial in runs where the targets aren't immune to the effect. the 4-in-1 is as follows now, for macro priorities sake.
/micon "Heavy Swing"
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>
/ac "Haymaker" <t>
/ac "Heavy Swing" <t>
/ac "Tomahawk" <t>
Haymaker seems to roughly produce the same amount of emnity as a skull sunder used in a chain as well, but then again that could be just luck on the hits for me. Another small change to absolutely make sure the Heavy Swing landed and not Haymaker was to change my SS > BB /micon from BB to SS. Added benefit of it all? Haymaker on a WAR just looks awesome.

[SpookyGhost]

There's a small downside to calling out Berserk's pacification and having it Esuna'd/Leech'd off. That 5s of not using weaponskills is a great way to gain back roughly 120 TP - though it is literally the same as just not attacking for 5s, you're going to run into some trouble in long fights where you're constantly using TP to keep debuffs up and need to hold on to Inner Beast for big hits. In general, though, it's useful to have. For short fights it allows you to deeps more effectively, so it's very useful in pre-50 content.

[Kitru]

That 5s of not using weaponskills is a great way to gain back roughly 120 TP

It's only 100 TP. You get back 60 TP every 3 seconds on the same server tick as DoTs, which averages out to 50 TP/GCD.

I don't really see the point in the Pacification warning macros, honestly. You're only losing 2 GCDs. Getting it cleansed off of you is still going to lose you some of that, and it's going to require your healer to throw a GCD and some mp at you. It's not like 2 GCDs of tank damage is really going to do much.