Warrior MACROS Please!

[SpookyGhost]

Rrrrright I read that you don't have all 3 macro'd, that still means you have 2 macro'd together, which means a .5s loss every combo. That adds up over the course of a longer fight, see: Turn 1, etc. Also I think you're not considering exactly how much time .5s is. If I mash on each one, I'll get my ability out significantly sooner than you would. Also, on top of that, if I hesitated to press the button then you'd be open to the same delay - which would be even more consequential for you.

But uh. Do what you want I guess. Just saying, it's not hard to press 3 buttons as opposed to 2 and you'll be at an advantage whereas having a macro gives you literally nothing but a .5s delay between the two hits. @_@

[Jyoeru]

Rrrrright I read that you don't have all 3 macro'd, that still means you have 2 macro'd together, which means a .5s loss every combo. That adds up over the course of a longer fight, see: Turn 1, etc. Also I think you're not considering exactly how much time .5s is. If I mash on each one, I'll get my ability out significantly sooner than you would. Also, on top of that, if I hesitated to press the button then you'd be open to the same delay - which would be even more consequential for you.

But uh. Do what you want I guess. Just saying, it's not hard to press 3 buttons as opposed to 2 and you'll be at an advantage whereas having a macro gives you literally nothing but a .5s delay between the two hits. @_@

The delay is inconsequential. At this point, from what I've seen, the issues I should be having aren't present. I already said I will keep your speculative reasoning in mind for fights like Turn 1. As this game is still somewhat new, I would also make the argument that the .5 second delay is unintended and will be fixed at some point in time. If SE would have given me a rotation option as opposed to using the delay command, then I would go that route instead. Just doing what I am given to work with. And considering how much time .5 seconds is, if you mashed on each key, you have quite the chance at hitting the key .01 seconds before GCD, thus having to press it again (presuming you registered a miss) and thus getting that same .5 sec delay if not longer.

You hesitating to press combo 3 button does not make my delay longer because I am open to the same error. I don't hit combo 3. That's part of the macro. I might hesitate hitting combo 2, but again, so might you. You have greater chance to hit the wrong button, or get distracted by something and reset your combo than I do missing. It's not 3 buttons. It's six (because you're forgetting about skull sunder vs. maim openers in your statement + my mercy stroke command in one of the macros).

What you're telling me is that you are basing your decisions on arbitrary math and not actual comparisons or practice. While your logic is intact from a mathematical standpoint, your outcomes are not because you have no point of comparison it seems. Now, if you told me that you played like me at one point, and started having major issues at Turn 1 and so on, and had to go back to a manual process to correct issues, then we might have an advancement in discussion. So far, all I hear is speculation that seems accurate on the surface, but falls short in the proof because it's based on one and only one factor (which is a modifiable variable as I mentioned), and thus can't be used to prove outcomes.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I strongly believe manual mode brings negligible benefit to the table, which is based on experience of doing both methods. When and if they ever fix that delay, I will likely be better off for mastering macros than people who insist on having every single ability hotkeyed--which presumes I am already not competitive with you at this point because of the user-error factor that I think really negates most of the anti-macro discussion.

[Bixby]

...

My post was needlessly curt and rude. I apologize.

What it really comes down to is that I'm just not a fan of posts that advocate half-second waits without going into the trade-offs. Players new to macros (the kind who'd find this thread after a search) aren't going to know about the rounding, and they likely aren't going to think about the subtler negative points.

I personally would not use a /wait 3, especially on a WAR (because of Wrath stacks), because those guaranteed half-seconds, on top of the lack of action queueing for macros, add up. Yes, raw hotkeys can get delayed by circumstances as well, but that only happens a few times a fight, vs. every single time with a macro. I think it's important for new players to know about those issues before they get excited about the possibilities for macroing main rotations.

As this game is still somewhat new, I would also make the argument that the .5 second delay is unintended and will be fixed at some point in time.

The rounding is intended and won't be fixed.

[Jyoeru]

My post was needlessly curt and rude. I apologize.

What it really comes down to is that I'm just not a fan of posts that advocate half-second waits without going into the trade-offs. Players new to macros (the kind who'd find this thread after a search) aren't going to know about the rounding, and they likely aren't going to think about the subtler negative points.

I personally would not use a /wait 3, especially on a WAR (because of Wrath stacks), because those guaranteed half-seconds, on top of the lack of action queueing for macros, add up. Yes, raw hotkeys can get delayed by circumstances as well, but that only happens a few times a fight, vs. every single time with a macro. I think it's important for new players to know about those issues before they get excited about the possibilities for macroing main rotations.

The rounding is intended and won't be fixed.

Interesting note you make about the lack of desire to modify the macro delay. I still think the long-term comparison would prove nominally in favor of someone who is good at managing all of the keys and execution of the abilities in near-perfect timing. I guess we will have to hope someone does the maths on this some day using real figures. Additionally, they may not want to modify how macros work today, but in time, their opinion might change. My point in wanting to use macros isn't to make my job super easy and pointless--it's to manage hotkeys so that I minimize the risk of resetting my combo orders and to keep my access to my keys manageable. In my view, if I can't access what I need in the 22 keys I use currently, then I am going to screw up how I play, because frankly, 22 keys is a lot to work with and memorize. If I have to add 4 more keys to that, I am going to miss executions and probably have to go into click modes which might mean missing mechanics and related. That is admittedly a failure on my part as a player, but I am okay with that reality, because as I said, 22 keys is a lot to utilize regularly. I think that is a fair observation.

PS: I apologize for my snappy reply. You seem like a level-headed individual. I just don't like being blatantly dismissed as I took your post as coming across. Cheers.

Let me also add some more logic to this debate. Basically for every 5 macro'd attacks I execute, you get 1 more attack in than I do (.5 x 5 = 2.5 which is the total of a GCD, which is to say that while you are attacking .5 sec faster than me, I don't lose an attack in the rotation until we've hit that 2.5 sec of accumulated lag).

Since I only have 2 attacks on a 3 sec wait macro (remember, heavy swing is manual, skull sunder is manual, and maim is manual, only the combo attacks are on the 3 sec wait macro), that means that for every 15 attacks I do, you end up with 16. If we are casting abilities about every 2.5 seconds, this means you get an "extra" attack over me about every 40 seconds (2.5 x 3 = 7.5 x 5 (every 5 attacks = lost attack for me) = 37.5 seconds). Considering that we also execute other attacks in the rotation, such as fracture, which are not macroed in my world, AND we have move mechanics and what not, you effectively realize one more attack than I do about every minute of fighting.

Yes, in a 15 minute battle, that's a huge deficit on my part (presuming perfect execution and rotation on your part, which I think we should offer some handicap to you for that because I don't buy 100% effectiveness for your 30:24 ratio of button presses or so). But, is it a game breaker? I doubt it. I should be maintaining my aggro even with the deficit because the true impact of the deficit isn't until that first minute of fighting has hit and I have "fallen behind" by one attack. But I should have setup enough in my rotation to have near the same aggro you do. As long as I am holding aggro, I am doing my "job." Sure, I lose 15 attacks worth of DPS in the entire fight, but I promise you none of this game's mechanics are dependent on us getting 100% of our attacks in. Everything is built with room for error.

No, I don't care about being a super pro elitist tank. So, I am okay with my results as long as my group is winning