Need Help with Bard Extra Skills

[Viridiana]

Depending on the situation, I might swap out Second Wind for Invigorate... but it seems like any time I find myself needing TP, others do too and I'm already singing Paeon, which solves my TP issue...

Wait, since when are we affected by our own songs?

[pandabearcat]

Feint is a dps loss. 10 second uptime means reapplication every 4 GCDs. It is certainly a skill that DOES help the tank, and I'm sure its of use in bahamut's coil if it is even applicable to the boss.

But in every situation a lancer is better off doing it than you, since it lasts 20 seconds. I have yet to see a lancer apply it in any group I've been in, and I've had no trouble. So it doesn't seen necessary.

If your group is having trouble with survivability, yes it will help. But frankly the vast majority of fights are DPS checks rather than survivability things.

Just ask yourself, do you keep up rain of death constantly? Its the same concept.

Whether we like it or not bard is a dps class, and support is secondary to pumping out dps.

Also as to our songs affecting ourselves, yes, they do. Even manasong (notice how it drains slower? its not because its intrinsically slower, but its because its restoring your mana as it drains it).

[Bardo]

Not sure what being 50 has anything to do with it, but I have more skillspeed than you do. :X 380 vs 352... I'm still just about the last DoW in any group that runs out of TP, so I'm really not sure I agree with your sentiment on invigorate.

Also, feint slows cast/movement speed, most websites don't have updated spell descriptions.

Got any proof of that? Would certainly make it much more useful if it did, but from my kiting tests it doesn't seem to affect movement speed at all.
(And I honestly have no idea how to definitively test if it affects cast speed)

[Kass]

Find an enemy that attacks pretty slow then use it on him, or I'd be willing to bet the combat log has timestamps. Just see the difference of when they are hitting.

[pandabearcat]

Bardo is correct that SLOW and HEAVY are two different things. Slow is attack and cast speed (I noticed a difference in boss AoE cast times), while heavy is movement.

As for invigorate, its a must.

I do not know what the other DoW's in your group are doing...but the math is pretty obvious.

Lancers, almost all their attacks are 60 TP. 70 TP every 20 seconds or so for buffs.

For us, its 60, 70, 80. Every ~20 seconds, we need at least 1 70 (more with straighter arrow procs), and 2 80's. Much more if multidotting. Lancers also have better invig (500 vs 400).

It might not seem like much (10, 20 more), but this is over a period of 120 seconds (Invig cd), and TP regen is designed that it is almost exactly 60 TP every 3 seconds, so you will stabilize with 60, which means lancers are much closer to stabilizing than bards.

Pugilists have attacks that cost 60, 50, and are even MORE efficient.

Bards are by far the least efficient DoW dps.

[Kass]

This goes back to the whole "i don't see the point of invigorate" thing, I'd much rather be not singing for another 400 TP. Unless of course it's needed, but like panda said the other 2 classes that rely on TP are much more stable in the long run.

[Mikedizzy]

Blood for Blood
Featherfoot
Invigorate
Internal release
Second Wind


Those 5 skills give you literally everything you need at endgame.

Edit: Feint is a terrible skill btw. Anything that can melee you, you should be circle-strafe kiting in the first place.

YES! THIS!!! That is all you will ever need.

[Bardo]

Pugilists have attacks that cost 60, 50, and are even MORE efficient.

But with skillspeed and greased lightning, their GCD is MUCH shorter. The sheer number of abilities they use in the same period of time trumps the lower cost.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Invigorate is only 300 TP for off-class, not 400.
If you pop Battle Voice and Army's Paeon, you can regen that same 300 TP not only for yourself but for your entire group in a matter of seconds.

Don't forget about your tank who can't pick up lancer and who's rotation has 60/70/80/90, even 120 TP cost abilities.



You guys are right that you wouldn't want to sing just to give yourself TP, but I simply haven't run into that situation. Any time I've needed TP, so did the tanks/mnks so I would have been singing anyway.

I suppose if your tank is spamming flash and isn't worried about damage and the only other DD in your groups are casters or DRG, then invigorate makes more sense than some of the other options.

[LunarEmerald]

Bards are by far the least efficient DoW dps.

You get in so many bloodletters that your TP isn't really an issue unless you're spamming aoes.

If you do get low on TP and Invigorate isn't up, you can put on Paeon for a few seconds and you've instantly gotten several hundred back. Especially with Battle Voice. A Bard can never be TP starved because of Paeon.

TP is never an issue for me unless I'm going crazy with Wide Volley to kill a group of enemies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Invigorate is only 300 TP for off-class, not 400.

Invigorate is 400 for off class and 500 for Lancer with the special trait.

[Thotor]

Feint should be used by DRG, not by BRD.