[suggetion] SE please stop with the hand holding

[Allanon]

OK so I have mixed feelings about this latest patch. The new Mp-regen has removed the need for MP Siphon and Stygian Spikes completely in my opinion and alot of others so my suggestion to SE is just remove it from the game completely. I am not a fan of the icon now beside aggro mobs either. It is distracting and finding out if a mob aggros is half the fun of the game or at least it was.

I am very happy they streamlined crafting or at least the local leves which makes things smoother. I am glad that they added sidequest to the game boring now but I think this is an improvement over grinding in some form or fashion.

I guess what irks me most about the recent patches is the hand holding that I guess the players want. Final Fantasy used to be a challenge and half the fun was figuring things out for yourself, but it seems like they are pandering still to those that want this game easy so they don't have to work for the accomplishments.

So I will just come right out and say it. SE stop making things easy or when you do start charging people will not pay because they have already done everything there is to do. Put in the HARD content like that which was seen in FFXI. Give me a reason to pay for this game. I want to feel like I have accomplished something when I get to 50 in class Rank. Make the NM's something that should be scary and so hard that not many players can do it. Right now you can get a mid-noob group together and they can pretty much take on any NM.

Maybe I am just set in my ways and am getting older and not in touch with this "instant gratification" era that we seem to be in today. Maybe I like the days of preparing for a fight before actually doing it. I miss those days. My final question to SE is simple. Who do you think is here for the long haul the "instant gratification" crowd that you seem to be targeting OR those that love the story and the hard work to accomplish the goals of the game? My guess is that the "instant gratification" crowd will leave as soon as we have to pay for the game and unless this game starts getting geared towards your true fan base you will lose them as well.

[Winterclaw]

This game has to be designed with making money in mind. If instant gratification is the only way SE can get this turned into profitability, than that's what they should do. Remember, they are competing with other games out there. I quit eve because it took forever to get around and I got to the point where if I wanted to keep doing PvE, I hit a wall where I pretty much could only advance by logging in once or twice a week to update my training queue. When I realized that I might have to do that for another month or two before I could start progressing in PvE again (and I couldn't level my alts in the meantime) I decided it was time to quit.

Besides, what is hard content? Oh look, I have to grind for an hour to get a coin and do that for two years to get a good weapon? Oh look, I have to fight this one mob with my party for several hours for the only reason of him having a ton of HP?

You want real hard content you need high-end pvp. But not that many people like it and I don't think it'll ever be in game.

Besides, some of us prefer fun in general over hard content for the sake of hard content.

[DeadRiser]

This game has to be designed with making money in mind. If instant gratification is the only way SE can get this turned into profitability, than that's what they should do. Remember, they are competing with other games out there. I quit eve because it took forever to get around and I got to the point where if I wanted to keep doing PvE, I hit a wall where I pretty much could only advance by logging in once or twice a week to update my training queue. When I realized that I might have to do that for another month or two before I could start progressing in PvE again (and I couldn't level my alts in the meantime) I decided it was time to quit.

Besides, what is hard content? Oh look, I have to grind for an hour to get a coin and do that for two years to get a good weapon? Oh look, I have to fight this one mob with my party for several hours for the only reason of him having a ton of HP?

You want real hard content you need high-end pvp. But not that many people like it and I don't think it'll ever be in game.

Besides, some of us prefer fun in general over hard content for the sake of hard content.

It's funny you made that eve statement about logging on to do training things.
Currently, leves is all that people do to rank up now. There is no grind in this game outside of leves

[genma]

It's funny you made that eve statement about logging on to do training things.
Currently, leves is all that people do to rank up now. There is no grind in this game outside of leves

Lol....what?

[Allanon]

This game has to be designed with making money in mind. If instant gratification is the only way SE can get this turned into profitability, than that's what they should do. Remember, they are competing with other games out there. I quit eve because it took forever to get around and I got to the point where if I wanted to keep doing PvE, I hit a wall where I pretty much could only advance by logging in once or twice a week to update my training queue. When I realized that I might have to do that for another month or two before I could start progressing in PvE again (and I couldn't level my alts in the meantime) I decided it was time to quit.

Besides, what is hard content? Oh look, I have to grind for an hour to get a coin and do that for two years to get a good weapon? Oh look, I have to fight this one mob with my party for several hours for the only reason of him having a ton of HP?

You want real hard content you need high-end pvp. But not that many people like it and I don't think it'll ever be in game.

Besides, some of us prefer fun in general over hard content for the sake of hard content.

As I have stated before Final Fantasy is not for everyone. The entire numbered franchise is meant to be hard and have high re-play ability. There are already games out there for the instant gratification crowd Final Fantasy should not be one of them. Final Fantasy has always been about the story and the effort it takes to reach a goal. In my opinion that is what is truly lacking from this game....story and content. You are right grinding currently consist of leve groups.

If SE really want to make money as you stated then they will be true to the franchise. IMO the instant gratification crowd will leave as soon as they have to start paying and if they don't give their fanbase something to stay they will leave too. FFXI has been going on for 7+ years now. The story is rich and for the most part the graphic are still much better than most other MMO's. I am tired of all the hand holding that the "weekend warriors" seem to need. I suggest if you don't have the time to play this game the way all the other FF were made then maybe Final Fantasy is not for you.

[Vanguard319]

As I have stated before Final Fantasy is not for everyone. The entire numbered franchise is meant to be hard and have high re-play ability. There are already games out there for the instant gratification crowd Final Fantasy should not be one of them. Final Fantasy has always been about the story and the effort it takes to reach a goal. In my opinion that is what is truly lacking from this game....story and content. You are right grinding currently consist of leve groups.

If SE really want to make money as you stated then they will be true to the franchise. IMO the instant gratification crowd will leave as soon as they have to start paying and if they don't give their fanbase something to stay they will leave too. FFXI has been going on for 7+ years now. The story is rich and for the most part the graphic are still much better than most other MMO's. I am tired of all the hand holding that the "weekend warriors" seem to need. I suggest if you don't have the time to play this game the way all the other FF were made then maybe Final Fantasy is not for you.

Agreed, While I don't condemn having some easy content, it should be done in a way that isn't "instant gratification," because what is the point of playing if you already know you WILL win without having to actually put up a struggle? Did people play through ToAU because it could be finished in an hour? Did ppl fight Absolute Virtue or the Pandemonium Warden thinking they'd kill then in ten minutes w no deaths?

[Preypacer]

This game has to be designed with making money in mind. If instant gratification is the only way SE can get this turned into profitability, than that's what they should do. Remember, they are competing with other games out there. I quit eve because it took forever to get around and I got to the point where if I wanted to keep doing PvE, I hit a wall where I pretty much could only advance by logging in once or twice a week to update my training queue. When I realized that I might have to do that for another month or two before I could start progressing in PvE again (and I couldn't level my alts in the meantime) I decided it was time to quit..

Eve is not a good comparison to even FFXI as its method of progression was entirely time-based and nothing you did, no matter how much or how little or how aggressively you play - in terms of learning skills - would change that. The closest you could come was to train skills that helped increase the rate at which you learned others.

That said, Eve's approach to gameplay is also very, very different different. Yours is a common argument among people who Eve simply didn't "click" with. Eve is ultimately about PvP, politics, wars between corporations, etc. etc...

It's also not a game designed with fans of "instant gratification" in mind.

Honestly, I can't get into Eve either. I've tried it multiple times and greatly admire its depth and complexity and all the possibilities it presents to the player who seeks them out. It's just not "my gig". I can, however, still admire it for what it does accomplish for the type of player it's geared toward....


And, on that note, the remark about FF games being traditionally more difficult and not having a lot of hand-holding. Just about any FF game you can think of in the numbered series fits that description. FFXI fit that description. There's nothing "out of place" about the idea that XIV should or at least could fit that description as well. Long-term progression, exploration, difficult battles and long, complex storylines are all staples of the series.

Besides, what is hard content? Oh look, I have to grind for an hour to get a coin and do that for two years to get a good weapon? Oh look, I have to fight this one mob with my party for several hours for the only reason of him having a ton of HP?

You want real hard content you need high-end pvp. But not that many people like it and I don't think it'll ever be in game.

The first paragraph is a disingenuous question that you respond to with cherry-picked answers.

The second one, about "hard content", is your opinion, not universal fact.

"Hard" is a subjective thing. I know people for whom PvP - what you consider "real hard content" - comes easy. They have a natural knack for it and can beat so-called "vets" with little trouble. For others, they have to constantly work at it, and it's still difficult to them. For some, like myself, we're a sitting duck practically no matter who we're up against.

Regarding "difficulty" in a PvE context...

When I was going through CoP in FFXI, some of those missions were *damn* difficult to complete. Others would tell you they were "cake".

Same with some of the Zilart missions, Aht Urghan Missions, etc.

Some people went 1/20+ on beating Maat and considered it almost impossible without a lot of luck. Others beat him on their 1st or 2nd try and would insist it was a cake-walk.

Point is, what you're arguing is purely your own point-of-view that applies to. It's not a universal absolute that applies to everyone.

Besides, some of us prefer fun in general over hard content for the sake of hard content.

This remark was obviously intended to be "clever". Unfortunately, it only makes you look arrogant and/or willfully ignorant.

[Zenaku]

SE want to get other players and it seem they want wow players. Too me if they make this game somewhat like FFXI hardcore feel then it would fail like FFXI. It wont have any more players then what FFXI have. Which would mean FFXI would die or FFXIV would die. I think if SE give us hardcore players something then i be happy with the hand holding.

[Preypacer]

SE want to get other players and it seem they want wow players. Too me if they make this game somewhat like FFXI hardcore feel then it would fail like FFXI. It wont have any more players then what FFXI have. Which would mean FFXI would die or FFXIV would die. I think if SE give us hardcore players something then i be happy with the hand holding.

Umm... FFXI didn't "fail".

FFXI maintained ~500,000 players and over 30 servers for 7+ years - the vast majority of its time in service. They only just did their first server merge, what... about a year ago? There are few, if any other MMOs that launched when FFXI did that could make that claim 7+ years after they launched. And it's done this despite doing "everything wrong", according to what many claim "a MMO must have" to be successful.

Ironically, newer MMOs, designed to cater more to the "casual" crowd - those looking for faster progress and more rewards with less time and effort - have fallen below FFXI's numbers in their first year, in as little as several months in some cases. Some MMOs designed in that mold have since been taken offline or made F2P because they couldn't maintain enough paying subscribers to remain P2P.

FFXI has been far from a failure.

[LadaraHamiki]

I agree entirely. This game will never be for TRUE GAMERS until patches are released that make it pure frustration from rank 1 straight to rank 50. Sure, people will quit in waves due to all of the SP lost on death, but who cares about the casual community anyway?