Tanking Frustration: I blame WoW

[zaviermhigo]

People should have the decency not to go buck wild in the first 10 secs, give a tank at least 10 secs to establish hate. WHM do not cure II immediately in the first 10 secs that is the dumbest thing you can do, when the mob kills you because you pulled hate, my sch laughs.

FFXI and XIV are both about hate management. If xiv wasn't it wouldn't show you your hate bar when you target the mob, watch your hate, that is part of your job not just poking stuff, or hitting stuff, its also watching your hate, so do it. I play sch and blm, as a blm I've never pulled hate, you wait 10 secs for establishment of hate, then you start nuking. Stop being such a spammer. 10 secs isn't that long.

[Stormspirit]

People should have the decency not to go buck wild in the first 10 secs, give a tank at least 10 secs to establish hate. WHM do not cure II immediately in the first 10 secs that is the dumbest thing you can do, when the mob kills you because you pulled hate

Hate is just another word for Threat. Any trinity based MMO has some sort of threat management system.

Most MMOs allow the tank to hold threat without the need to always wait several seconds. In fact it's becoming something of an archaic mechanic in general.

So most players are coming from MMOs where this isn't an issue... Or first timers drawn by the Final Fantasy name, and you're questioning their decency for not knowing the nuances of a system the game itself doesn't really explain?

[Keneblerz]

FFXI and XIV are both about hate management. If xiv wasn't it wouldn't show you your hate bar when you target the mob, watch your hate, that is part of your job not just poking stuff, or hitting stuff, its also watching your hate, so do it. I play sch and blm, as a blm I've never pulled hate, you wait 10 secs for establishment of hate, then you start nuking. Stop being such a spammer. 10 secs isn't that long.

Sometimes "poking stuff" is the same as threat management. Some of mini/bosses in this game tell you as such. I know for one, the sunken temple mini boss - Temple Guardians is very hard without proper threat management as he resets his threat every so often AS WELL AS being resistant to threat skills like Flash/Provoke.

[zaviermhigo]

Sometimes "poking stuff" is the same as threat management. Some of mini/bosses in this game tell you as such. I know for one, the sunken temple mini boss - Temple Guardians is very hard without proper threat management as he resets his threat every so often AS WELL AS being resistant to threat skills like Flash/Provoke.

What I meant is take the time out of poking stuff to actually look at your hate, I'm not talking about bosses resetting hate, I'm talking about full boar spammers who face roll in the first 5 secs. Like they can't be bothered to look at anything else besides there abilities they are pressing. I've played dd and healer, as a healer I have to zoom out more to see the attacks and everyone on my screen just in case, I see a lot of stupid ass dd mistakes that way. I can tell who messed up and why a lot of time, just look at the actions people are pressing on the party list. The fact of the matter is, most of the time bad dds are too preoccupied just facerolling to even move out of attacks or watch hate. Hates really only a problem in the first 10-15 secs of battling mobs. Raid Awareness just isn't strong with the dds in this community. Not saying I haven't had good dds, just when I do I appreciate them more, cause 80% of them are terrible. I played 1.0 also, and XI, and in both of those games it wasn't hard to be a dd, it just took better gear, some dds in xi were like 5-10 macros at max. But in xiv arr, you need to know your class more, know what each ability does, know when to use one, a lot of dds aren't taking the time to actually learn to play their classes. I don't know if I blame them since you can spam to 50 in two days if you're dedicated enough with fates.

[Keneblerz]

What I meant is take the time out of poking stuff to actually look at your hate, I'm not talking about bosses resetting hate, I'm talking about full boar spammers who face roll in the first 5 secs.

By "looking at your hate," you mean observing the mobs? Or is there a threat meter im not aware of? Im just asking, not trying to be condescending. And on the topic of DD's, for those that are willing to listen you can always guide them to be better. Won't take more than a few suggestions. Or just see where their at. Remember alot of person who play this game may be first timers.

[Ehayte]

By "looking at your hate," you mean observing the mobs? Or is there a threat meter im not aware of?

There are 3 Enmity indicators in this game. They follow in order of usefulness:
#1 - In your party window, to the left of a member's class icon is a white meter with a number next to it - if the number is 1 or A, the mob is about to smack that person. Everyone that has some hate as a number, in order of how much hate they have. There is also that white meter that fills up, the more fill the meter is, the more enmity someone has. So if it says you are #1, but the healer's says #2 and the bar is almost full, you are about to lose aggro.
#2 - In the (default) left of your UI over your main chat, there is a list of things that have you on their hate list. If the icon is green, they see you, yellow, they are pretty upset with you, red, they are targeting you.
#3 - Red lines/Sounds - When a mob targets something new, a red line will go to them from the mob. If it is you, it will make a soft noise.

[Keneblerz]

There are 3 Enmity indicators in this game. They follow in order of usefulness...

I see, thanks for that. I never realized it. I normally eyeball it based on how long i havn't used flash or how much the healer is using cure/regen. When i see the red line i immediately use provoke followed up shield lob or something and resume shield bashing anythign that moves . I kid, but thankfully my healers don't have to work so hard unless i goofed on establishing threat.

[Avalon_Albrook]

I see, thanks for that. I never realized it. I normally eyeball it based on how long i havn't used flash or how much the healer is using cure/regen. When i see the red line i immediately use provoke followed up shield lob or something and resume shield bashing anythign that moves . I kid, but thankfully my healers don't have to work so hard unless i goofed on establishing threat.

Those indicators are your lifeline as a tank. Now that you know they're there and what they mean, start making it your second nature to be aware of them at all times. When pulling aggro, you want the "traffic signal" indicators to all be red squares on you. That means you're doing your job and their aggro is just for you. But even a red triangle means you've lost aggro to someone and you're only second most hated now. Literally, the instant a red triangle comes up as an indicator, you should fly off the handle with a lob or a flash and scream into a headset, "YO MOB BITCH WHAT YOU THINK YOU DOING IMMA CUT YOU". I don't believe this part helps in pulling aggro back, but it makes me feel more connected to the moment.