Tanking Frustration: I blame WoW

[Devilair]

I believe provoke was nerfed because of people abusing it by pulling fate bosses and running away causing a forced reset I think.

Aslo provoke CAN be resisted :\

[Strelnikov]

I had exactly that experience last night on my 26 glad. I didn't even get to tank and thm pulled and archer lit it up.. I told them to let me pull they said just do it they can cc mobs, They certainly sounded like they knew what they were doing.

The THM pulled again I flashed grabbed the doctore and instead of focusing on him they decided to burn the adds that came with him down by themselves.
It didn't work, the archer died the thm was pissed and said I couldn't hold aggro on a mob I never saw. I killed the doctore and the adds with the good conj and I left the instance. 15 minutes is Nothing compaired to 60 with people like that. You're right about Wow behavior though, I was a 90 ne priest, I healed them all listened to the rants, these guys will get tired and leave soon.

[Duelle]

You haven't played WoW in a LONG LONG time, have you.

I played from vanilla all the way through Mists. I also did it as a prot warrior, which wasn't the easiest class to work with through TBC (where our threat coefficients and rage generation were nerfed), saw a surge in performance during WotLK (where Shockwave was introduced along with the Devastate buff + Glyph of Heroic Strike), was gutted with Cataclysm's rage redesign and finally ruined when they decided to copy-paste DK active mitigation to all tanks in the game during Mists of Pandaria.

Even after CC stopped being mandatory in dungeons kill orders and so on were still important and contributed most to efficient kills. Some manage to progress in spite of not learning proper gameplay (not unlike the dead weight WHM 7 of us had to carry through the end of the main storyline), but the existence of such people does not deny that proper gameplay does exist.

[Terinn23]

I have to say you are right on. DPS and heals just want fast runs and they need to slow down. Threat is not given and it takes a few seconds to build. The way I solved this problem is working with the healers and if someone pulls off of me I will not taunt back if it continues to happen. If they die, then they die! They will learn to let you do your job! It helps when you run with at least a guildie who is healing your runs. I believe as time goes on everyone will settle into how they play and will take more ques from the tank and the healers. We just need to have the experience players help the newer players learn. I feel better now knowing I am not the only one who noticed this problem and am very happy it is not faceroll tanking!

[Furio]

Possibly the fact that tanks got a huge threat boost somewhere during Cataclysm that made mobs stick to them if they sneezed.

So you're saying you have threat problems? Granted I only came as far as stone vigil, I never had such problems. Threat is the least of your worries.

It's true that threat in WoW is less of an issue nowadays. But the devs also explained why. Their vision of tanking gameplay was to give tanks a fun rotation where cooldowns, interrupts ans positioning play an important role. Rather than 'stacking sunders for threat'. Anyone who's tanked LK heroic, Anub Arak HC, Sarth 3D, Rag heroic, etc... Knows this. Also, faster threat generation is more important in WoW, because the game play is much faster where FFXIV's is rather static and slow. (Not saying good vs bad btw - that's subjective)

Don't say WoW tanking is "omgzorz easy faceroll" if you've only done dungeons and raid finder. It's stupid.

[Viridiana]

I have to say you are right on. DPS and heals just want fast runs and they need to slow down.

I do want fast runs, that's true; it just so happens that runs will go faster with me alive because I understand aggro mechanics. Unless it's an enemy that I know for a fact I can finish off before dying, I won't even consider peeling it off of the tank (except that horrible Ifrit run the other day, where I sincerely tried to pull hate from the tank). Peeling off of the healer, on the other hand. . .well, it depends on how fast the tank is responding.

That being said, by all means let people die when they're being obnoxious and not respecting anything about the aggro system. If they think they can survive tanking in cloth or leather, let them try it. If y'all can teach a few DDs to be better players, it makes DDs as a whole look better, and I'm all for that.

[Zfz]

So you're saying you have threat problems? Granted I only came as far as stone vigil, I never had such problems. Threat is the least of your worries.

I disagree. I'm also farming Stone Vigil, and it seems that DPS are just generally not very good at their class (or don't pay attention to leveling gear). Every once in a while, I do get a damage dealer that really will ride my threat. Every once in a while. They are rare, but they do exist. It's just hard to pick them out because all the real good ones control their threat so well you don't even realize it. Only the bad ones show themselves by over-taunting.

[Furio]

I disagree. I'm also farming Stone Vigil, and it seems that DPS are just generally not very good at their class (or don't pay attention to leveling gear). Every once in a while, I do get a damage dealer that really will ride my threat. Every once in a while. They are rare, but they do exist. It's just hard to pick them out because all the real good ones control their threat so well you don't even realize it. Only the bad ones show themselves by over-taunting.

Maybe it's because I'm a warrior and you a paladin. But I've never had any threat issues and I pull groups without the need for CC:
Run in --> OP --> Flash --> spread dot --> OP --> flash --> regular rotation

Also worth noting is that I've done this dungeon and the one before this several times with players in AF gear. My gear isn't great, it's decent. You can see it if you have the iPhone app.

On bosses no one ever comes near my threat.

[SatrinaKali]

So you're saying you have threat problems? Granted I only came as far as stone vigil, I never had such problems. Threat is the least of your worries.

WoW tanking in terms of threat was faceroll, it took all of 1-2 seconds to get more threat then anyone else and another 1-2 seconds to get so high no one was going to pull off you unless you died. This was especially true in Cata/MoP. I remember Vanilla where dps had to wait on the 2nd sunder before moving in and to me it wasn't bad game design. It taught patience. In games now, if you arnt top threat in the 1st second, dps is going to pull off you because they just pop all CDs and go balls to the wall. People need to retrain themselves and learn to actually monitor threat. Remember when we had to actually watch Omen? And raid leaders would tell people "Hey, watch your threat, pop a threat diminishing cd".

Also we're warriors, our threat generation is really good. I think people need to let paladins a few extra seconds to control packs just due to their AoE threat not being as great.

[Stormspirit]

You guys do understand that not every player is jumping from another MMO, right?

The genre has been mainstream for years and the name Final Fantasy alone is going to draw many first timers. Too many people have some WoW related chip on their shoulder and find a way to make that one game the culprit for anything that annoys them.

People don't know how to act in a group because THE GAME DOESN'T TEACH YOU. That's an issue with MMOs going all the way back to Everquest and Asherons Call.

The only difference, ironically, is that despite the fact that failure meant real consequences in a game like Everquest, players didnt waste time whining on boards. We learned and we sought to educate each other.