Tanking Frustration: I blame WoW

[PiedPiper]

Ok, sure you can toss some blame on the healer regening me as I pull before I have him positioned, but how on earth is provoke not throwing me on top?

Provoke only puts you 1 point of threat above top target, so if regen ticks... poof you don't have it.


That said.... for both classes tanking is mind numbingly simple right now. Spam your main combo. Win. /done.

OP: You can continue using lob as they approcah you if you're really having that big an issue. It has a 6x multiplier with oath.

If DD's are pulling hate off you, it is YOUR FAULT. It is not their job to not dps. It is your job to keep its attention while they do. Less QQ more getting hit in the face. Think about it as tryign to maximize your own dps. More accurately, your own threat / per second.

[Jahaudant]

I start single target encounters with Fracture and still never have issues with hate even when the DPS don't let up.

White Mages that think Shroud of Saints is to be saved for when they run out of MP spamming overhealing Medica is the biggest problem.

[HollowEarth]

i agree with this 100%. Bards are the new huntards. end of story. it will be a sad day when a DPS meter is allowed in the game. Tanking is tricky, its not hard just tricky. seems like bards just go all honey badger and start blowing mobs up within the first couple of seconds, making it VERY tricky to keep hate.

I ALWAYS mark targets, if a bard pulls a mob off me and it doesnt have a 1 over its head...i let him go nuts. I do the same in my FC, but they know better now tough love.

[Sebastien]

I feel like some of the criticism in this thread is not fair.

For example, mages that AOE all the pulls. Is that WoW's fault? Or S-E's? Yoshi stated that overabundance of AOE detracts from skillful gameplay. Yet, for a leveling thaum, AOE IS the most efficient thing to do, for groups as small as TWO! AOE should never be balanced this poorly. S-E takes the blame.

Also, be careful when you say tanking in WoW requires no skill. It's true Blizzard removed threat as a mechanic, and in leveling dungeons the tanks job is quite trivial. However, endgame tanking in WoW is incredibly demanding. Particularly in the recent Mists expansion, I can't think of any MMO in which tanking required more skill (I'm talking about high ranking HM teams not casual raiding).

That said, I certainly sympathize with everyone who has struggled with bad DPS. Even an over-eager healer can be problematic. My favorite conjurers have been the ones that spend their first few GCD's sleeping adds. It gives me time to establish threat, makes their job easier, and its a much stronger way to play the class. Frontloading heals is almost as bad as DPS who pop cooldowns before the pull starts.

[TaranNos]

I'd compare ARR tanking to TBC level warrior. If the DPS gives me a sec and attacks target1, I'll hold them all. If they don't, we're gonna have a bad time.

[zaviermhigo]

People should have the decency not to go buck wild in the first 10 secs, give a tank at least 10 secs to establish hate. WHM do not cure II immediately in the first 10 secs that is the dumbest thing you can do, when the mob kills you because you pulled hate, my sch laughs.

FFXI and XIV are both about hate management. If xiv wasn't it wouldn't show you your hate bar when you target the mob, watch your hate, that is part of your job not just poking stuff, or hitting stuff, its also watching your hate, so do it. I play sch and blm, as a blm I've never pulled hate, you wait 10 secs for establishment of hate, then you start nuking. Stop being such a spammer. 10 secs isn't that long.

[Stormspirit]

@ Sebastien

Nice to see a balanced, reasonable post.

You're correct about WoW tanking, also. People like to bash WoW for being too easy while completely ignoring the hard content that does exist.

Fact is, WoWs hardcore raiding scene is still some of the most complex and challenging the genre has to offer, and no other MMO demands as much from its tanks at that level in terms of the number of mechanics they have to deal with and the level of coordination the two tanks often have to maintain.

Getting back to the topic at hand, most issues are easily handled by marking enemies so Dps know the order, or asking the Mage to simply not aoe.

Yes, amazingly enough, its helpful to take a second to communicate with your teammates...

If they refuse to LISTEN, however, they aren't willing to be team players. That's not the fault of any other game, developer or community, and to suggest otherwise absolves then of responsibility.

No, it's on them as individuals.

[Stormspirit]

People should have the decency not to go buck wild in the first 10 secs, give a tank at least 10 secs to establish hate. WHM do not cure II immediately in the first 10 secs that is the dumbest thing you can do, when the mob kills you because you pulled hate

Hate is just another word for Threat. Any trinity based MMO has some sort of threat management system.

Most MMOs allow the tank to hold threat without the need to always wait several seconds. In fact it's becoming something of an archaic mechanic in general.

So most players are coming from MMOs where this isn't an issue... Or first timers drawn by the Final Fantasy name, and you're questioning their decency for not knowing the nuances of a system the game itself doesn't really explain?

[SatrinaKali]

I feel like some of the criticism in this thread is not fair.

For example, mages that AOE all the pulls. Is that WoW's fault? Or S-E's?

That's their own fault for spam leveling in FATES and never learning their class imo. Every mage i've been with who leveled ONLY by FATEs, just spams AoE dmg and does horribly. This isn't 100% for all players, but the ones I have run with its true for.

[Keneblerz]

Ok, sure you can toss some blame on the healer regening me as I pull before I have him positioned, but how on earth is provoke not throwing me on top?

I don't think anyone really knows how Provoke works. When i use it, i mostly use when a mob im not attacking goes for the healers. Immediately after i use, he B-lines for the healer again.