Tanking Frustration: I blame WoW

[Niyuka]

I was a DK tank up until lategame cataclysm, and I really only had to run in and spam ONE macro. ONE. On every single fight. In turn, no DPS could ever pull aggro off me, outside of insane gear differences early in an expansion cycle. My positioning was trivial, aggro was guaranteed higher, and there was barely any decision making outside of actual raidbosses involved.

So far in this game, mind you I am only PLD lvl 33, there is a huge difference in how easy it is to gain, keep, and develop aggro, based on a number of variables, not the least being DPS behaviour. For example, positioning is not trivial, as its easy to lose aggro on a secondary mob to an overnuking DPS, and the mob moving in a direction which forces me to run after it, in turn making me liable to lose aggro on other mobs. Also, I cannot just use all my skills as time and GCDs are precious, and I have to maximize threat before starting to lay on dots etc.
We are still talking about single-group dungeon content, right?

[Sakasa]

I pull with with tomahawk, shortly after tomahawk hits a WMG with regen me. I lose hate, so I provoke / flash.

Ok, sure you can toss some blame on the healer regening me as I pull before I have him positioned, but how on earth is provoke not throwing me on top?

Provoke only matches you to highest enmity on the list at the time of use it does not generate extra enmity besides the passive (litterally standing not doing anything so less then auto attack). Which is why it is separate from GCD. So it was possible you got moved to the top of the list before the tick cure enmity was added making the whm trump you again.

[Vod]

Had this problem the most during early levels, and not as much at 50. If dps pulls agro on something I am tanking, I will let them tank it. After a few rounds of this (them offtanking mobs), they usually get the point that I am not here to babysit, or carry them through their retardedness.

[Gray_Spy]

I just want to vent to you fellow tanks off an assumption of mine.

I've recently tanked dungeons with people who obviously aren't strangers to MMO's because of they way they understand dungeoning mechanics.

However tanking in this game is hard because of how (My assumption) Warcraft evolved tanking to be so faceroll.

DPS classes I play with automatically start going buckwild on mobs I just pulled (Namely Bards and BLM) before I can even get a Savage Blade or Flash on them.

These people are so used to faceroll tanking and instant aggro from WoW that it makes tanking frustrating and them rage at me for not having aggro.

Vent end. Have you guys had similar experiences?

Yes, and I let everyone know after one sloppy pull that if they do it again they can tank it, and then the healer can die for their lack of better judgement. The one mechanic that I'm not too fond of in this game is the healer formulas that clearly show White Mage being able to almost out threat a tank in heavy heal situations. I do not want the game to be easier to threat gen, but just wish they tightly tuned it to where a tank can always save the day. They really penalize poor gameplay which is good, but at the same time it's not enough because at anything Pre-50, there's just not enough penalty or difficulty to really enforce someone to learn.

Literally people can even squeak by Ifrit Hardmode, which is daunting to me...as Garuda is a bit tricker IMO from Ifrit.

[sybase]

I haven't played a DPS role in ARR yet, however when I played WoW as a rogue we had Feint which would allow us to reduce our threat at will should we accidentally pull aggro. Do ARR DPS classes have something similair?

[Odins_wrath]

The problem is a lot of people have being "spoiled" by recent mmo's

tanks getting automatic agro and holding it always is ridicules idea if there was no time limit you wouldn't even need dps class's

DPS class's need to understand that agro management effects everyone if your tanks struggling to hold agro and your going hell for leather and drawing agro step off the gas a little give your tank time to build agro back up

A game that makes tanks always have agro, well whats the point of dps even having armor

First. I love this statement, and whole heartedly agree. idc what mmo a person has played, or how veteran one considers themselves. tank, dps or healer are roles we get to choose. However this game forces you to actually play that specific role in a group/dungeon dynamic.

the best part of that is this game has boundary's for those roles.

As in no automatic tank aggro, dps do just that - varying values of damage per second all higher than the tank, and a healer that needs to sustain a battle for a duration of time. you step outside the boundaries of YOUR chosen role, the game punishes you. its a mistake make by that player(s).

and imo the boundaries are pretty clear, and the game punches you in the face several times to remind you where you crossed the line.

[Dead-Song]

Yeah nobody forces you to play a role, you can always choose. If you are a bad tank maybe youll be a great DPS, who knows?
Just stick to your role theres classes for all tastes out there. Youll find what suits

[Orophin]

DPS just need to play smarter in some instances. As a BLM, my combo prior to 50 always started with a Thunder 2/3 (so like 3 seconds of time spent casting my first ability) followed by a Swiftcast Fire 3. After that I'd go into my normal routine. By the time I had finished the Thunder and Fire 3 casts, the tank I usually roll with had firmly established threat and I would never overtake him unless I got some back to back procs on Thunderspark/Firestarter.

It's a team effort. DPS need to give tanks the chance to grab that initial threat while tanks need to do everything in their power to get firmly established in those first few seconds.

I haven't played a DPS role in ARR yet, however when I played WoW as a rogue we had Feint which would allow us to reduce our threat at will should we accidentally pull aggro. Do ARR DPS classes have something similair?

Archers have Quelling Strike but only certain jobs have access to their cross class abilities.

[Dead-Song]

Yeah thats how it works. This game PUNISHES you for lack of team work and steping off your role.
By the way i love it when a black mages in my party...DAT damage xD

[EvanderStoneguard]

Not really, and if I run across a dps who facerolls I won't pick the mob back sometimes asking the healer to not heal. They will learn one way or another