Tanking Frustration: I blame WoW

[PiedPiper]

Ok, sure you can toss some blame on the healer regening me as I pull before I have him positioned, but how on earth is provoke not throwing me on top?

Provoke only puts you 1 point of threat above top target, so if regen ticks... poof you don't have it.


That said.... for both classes tanking is mind numbingly simple right now. Spam your main combo. Win. /done.

OP: You can continue using lob as they approcah you if you're really having that big an issue. It has a 6x multiplier with oath.

If DD's are pulling hate off you, it is YOUR FAULT. It is not their job to not dps. It is your job to keep its attention while they do. Less QQ more getting hit in the face. Think about it as tryign to maximize your own dps. More accurately, your own threat / per second.

[shoultzilla]

Provoke only puts you 1 point of threat above top target, so if regen ticks... poof you don't have it.


That said.... for both classes tanking is mind numbingly simple right now. Spam your main combo. Win. /done.

OP: You can continue using lob as they approcah you if you're really having that big an issue. It has a 6x multiplier with oath.

If DD's are pulling hate off you, it is YOUR FAULT. It is not their job to not dps. It is your job to keep its attention while they do. Less QQ more getting hit in the face. Think about it as tryign to maximize your own dps. More accurately, your own threat / per second.

Absolutely wrong. Hate management is a party wide responsibility. If you're a DD and you know your tank is having a semi hard time holding Hate, it is your job to SLOW DOWN and allow him to build threat. DD's can pull hate off the Tank by going into DUR-P-S mode, more so if the Tank is subpar.

[avaughnimous]

Provoke only puts you 1 point of threat above top target, so if regen ticks... poof you don't have it.


That said.... for both classes tanking is mind numbingly simple right now. Spam your main combo. Win. /done.

OP: You can continue using lob as they approcah you if you're really having that big an issue. It has a 6x multiplier with oath.

If DD's are pulling hate off you, it is YOUR FAULT. It is not their job to not dps. It is your job to keep its attention while they do. Less QQ more getting hit in the face. Think about it as tryign to maximize your own dps. More accurately, your own threat / per second.

Threat in this game isn't a given quantity like in other coddling MMOs. Just because you personally may not have perceived an issue with holding threat doesn't mean that the problem does not exist within the game. It means, more often than not, you've had dps and healers who have actually paid attention to their threat instead of going buck-wild on targets before you get to them. It's a party effort, and it seems you've been fortunate enough so far to be with competent players that don't allow themselves to get pwnd by over-zealous dps or heals that jump the gun. You definitely have your sub-par tanks as well, but the mechanics aren't as forgiving in FFXIV like they are in MMOs like wow. Threat must be managed by each and every party member.

[Tubben]

Its not allways the Dps, also the tanks are prettynoften just bad.

i very often see tanks who pull, concentrate on the aggro they have on their mob marked with an 1, and in the meanwhile my aggro meter switch from green to yellow, to orange and then red, while keeping the life of the tank up.

i cant count how many times i told the tank to rotate through the mobs, after they build some aggro on their primary target.

sometimes i need to switch to stoneshielding the tank 3-4 times in a row, because they dont build aggro fast enough.

Its not allways the dps.

i for myself wait to like 70% of tank health, then start with regen. after this its cure1 all the way, untill i get an cure2 proc. since overhealing produce aggro, its to be avoided.

if an tank then loose aggro to me its ( in my eyes) his fault.

but i also had very amazing tanks, who were able to pull 2 groups at once while i had to spam cure 2 for awhile and they still didnt loose aggro.

[Tristaris]

If DD's are pulling hate off you, it is YOUR FAULT. It is not their job to not dps. It is your job to keep its attention while they do. Less QQ more getting hit in the face. Think about it as tryign to maximize your own dps. More accurately, your own threat / per second.

You are terribly wrong.

You do realize that it is extremely easy to unload on a boss, shank threat from the tank- especially if the DPS outgears the tank a bit- right?

Threat management is party wide. Granted I haven't had many issues with threat, but the one or two times I have it has always seemed to have been a bard that seems to think it's okay just to blow everything they have on the boss before I can even get it positioned- and NO, that is NOT okay and that fault lies within the DD.

[Keneblerz]

Ok, sure you can toss some blame on the healer regening me as I pull before I have him positioned, but how on earth is provoke not throwing me on top?

I don't think anyone really knows how Provoke works. When i use it, i mostly use when a mob im not attacking goes for the healers. Immediately after i use, he B-lines for the healer again.

[PiedPiper]

I don't think anyone really knows how Provoke works. When i use it, i mostly use when a mob im not attacking goes for the healers. Immediately after i use, he B-lines for the healer again.

Read the top post on page 5 of this thread. That is how provoke works.

It matches your current threat to the threat of the person who currently has highest plus 1 point of threat/damage. Provoke will turn a mob to you, but will not hold it if he person who had threat performs any action and you do not. Provoke doesn't really earn any threat, it just matches your threat to the highest in the group. So if you currently have threat and use Provoke, it won't do anything except go on cool down. Similarly, if you use it when you do not have threat, it will pullt he mob too you, but it is up to you to continue to earn more threat per second than the person you pulled it off of.

[Duelle]

I don't think anyone really knows how Provoke works. When i use it, i mostly use when a mob im not attacking goes for the healers. Immediately after i use, he B-lines for the healer again.

Provoke is basically a taunt mechanic without the 6-second target lock (this should probably be addressed someday by the devs) that gives you the opportunity to regain aggro and keep going. As is I'm guessing the devs were expecting players to shout in Vent/teamspeak "stop heals and DPS. Gonna taunt!" or something along those lines.

It's equivalents in WoW (Taunt) and SWTOR (Taunt) target-locked the mob on you for 6 seconds, which was enough time for the DPS to back off a bit while they let you rebuild aggro. ARR's version lacks that for some reason.

The main reason a tank can auto grab everything in WoW was never because of the tank, it was because of the misdirection from the hunter to misdirect all threat onto the tank. Over half of the fights starts with the Tank usually just stand still and wait for the hunter to feed the boss to him.

....

Seriously, no one else thinks the "instant aggro from WoW" in the OP abit too suspecting? (that he never actually played it. He can't even mention a single skill name or class name or any term at all?). Coz a rant coming from a WoW player would probably be something like "Why are there so many WoW nerds thinking they still have misdirection to open fights, or have invisibility to blow everything on the boss with no consequence at all"?

On a side note, I'd LOVE to see Rogue => Thief and Musketeer => Gunner get Tricks of the Trade and Misdirect (respectively).

[Shmashed]

Well, it was actually Everquest Warriors that trivialized tanking (AFK corner tanking anyone?)

Just for velious and (especially) luclin boss fights? A very small subset of combat in that game. Even still, it didn't trivialize aggro control? DPS couldn't ever go all out. The onus was on the DPS to not screw up and flip the mob or it could wipe out the entire melee crew. Thats what is so astounding about dps in this game. They have an aggro meter, two in fact. They even come in colors like homeland security threat levels. Yet they still can't figure it out. What made the recent tanking so easy is that you were given tools that if you pressed the button, aggro was locked. I would definitely say EQ tanking was harder, but it was a shared responsibility. WoW changed that in peoples minds.

[Stormspirit]

There is nothing unique about FF11's or this games threat system. In fact WoW threat used to function the exact same way. Dps and healers both had to watch their output.

For most of WoWs life, a five-man dungeon crawl had far more to worry about then anything you find in this game. We're talking about crowd control on every single pull, even in the earliest dungeons, or the group wiped. The classes also had access to more abilities that would flatout wipe the entire group if misused, such as several different versions of fear.

WoW has gotten easier last expansion, yes, but there is no reason whatsoever why a WoW vet shouldn't walk right into this game and perform their role. There is nothing they haven't seen or dealt with before.

Blaming WoW ultimately just absolves the individual player of responsibility. Anyone with ANY experience with ANY trinity based MMO should catch immediately. If you're screwing up its on you, not because another game trained you incorrectly.