Warrior is OP! Paladin is OP! Make one tank class and be done with it....

[Sephirah]

... if a guy wants to run as a WAR for his whole tanking career through the life of FFXIV he damn well has the right to do so and the game should accomodate that.

This is exactly the mentality I was talking about, no, the game should not accommodate that. You should NOT be able to do whatever you want regardless of your class. If you want to be the absolute tankiest tank you can be, well then your only option is to roll pld, because warrior will never have equal defense; they may receive buffs in some other ways which improve their survivability, but if your definition of what makes a tank the "best" tank is defense then it will always be pld, they were intentionally designed to be that way. As many have said, warriors CAN be main tanks right now, the only content they can't is the content that NOBODY IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN YET.

There should be times when it's advantageous to use one over the other, or one for a specific situation.

[Delorean]

Now, thus far, most people (sans the most voracious of self-disparaging Marauder tryhards) seem to concede Warriors can actually still tank anything they're intended to tank just fine. Instead, a week or two after the game's release, the "Tank Roles" section of the forum is saturated with people raging that they can't skip a tier of gear with the more offensively-flavored tank and stand on perfectly even footing with the defensively-flavored tank in content that is missing the segeue to it?

Do continue.

maybe you're just so thick that you missed the part where people are saying that they want to play the game, that's nothing to be proud of son

like i'll be honest

im gonna complete my relic and then im going to go back to playing wow because despite the complaining about endgame in this game, there is none. you get two level 50 dungeons, a long ass time consuming grind for gear you cant do top end progression in (as far as the information provided by warriors in this forum goes anyway), 3 boss encounters, and a raid that the lead developer thinks less than 100 people are going to complete before next patch.

but yeah let's just take a dump on all the people that have similar interests to your own

hell im gonna hop on the bandwagon with this guy and point and laugh at all of you for complaining about practically nothing because even if you do get to bcob, you're not going to complete it and you're going to ragequit over not being able to put a group together to complete it. Hell let's say you dont even want to do bcob what is there left to do in the game for a player who wants endgame?

Paladin tanks are the premier tanks in this game. They have vastly superior

whats that

you might break a nail if you dont wear your gauntlets or whine just as loudly as warriors if you weren't flavor of the month?

sorry i thought you were just saying something about being a badass

if you were a real badass you'd have cleared bcob with 2 warriors by now, telling people to l2p and to get on your level

[Gray_Spy]

Blablabla

Since when did they give you a golden class-specific mount to shine on our great community of tanks?

[EvanderStoneguard]

I don't understand why this "off tank" label is considered inferior. An off tank has equal if not sometimes more responsibility in other MMOs, the only difference between the two is tanking responsibility. There were times I would be told to off tank and time to be main, heck there were times that we ran content enough time that we used to switch between main and off, but never did I think I was inferior because I was an off tank. Some fights would require higher HP other times it requires dmg mitigation.

Some fights that I remember, fighting 3 bosses and having to keep them separated. Main tanks takes 2 and off takes 1, the key to not wipe is dependent on the off tank pulling 1 boss of the main after about 45 seconds and then having the main tank take it back in like 15-30 secs. At no point was one tank lesser than the other. Telling one tank to be main and off only meant who does what in the beginning.

[Gray_Spy]

I don't understand why this "off tank" label is considered inferior. An off tank has equal if not sometimes more responsibility in other MMOs, the only difference between the two is tanking responsibility.

Agreed. It's an ego thing. A lot of Warriors I've come in contact with have a need to show that they are viable. It's like...bro. This is not a pissing contest, let's just kill the boss and get loot together.

[EvanderStoneguard]

I wonder if the healing board theres a topic of "OMG CNJ/WHM are better tank healers than ARC/SCH" and that ARC/SCH are only raid healers.

[Hachiko]

I wonder if the healing board theres a topic of "OMG CNJ/WHM are better tank healers than ARC/SCH" and that ARC/SCH are only raid healers.

Probably not, because you need both in a raid, and the combined utility of both is always useful when compared to stacking.

On the other hand, "off tank" isn't a role. You may call it a position but the role is still tank. The problem is that PAL can off tank just as easily if not more easily than WAR. They tend to have good if not better AOE damage and threat between circle of scorn and flash. On top of that they naturally get Provoke, which is also extremely useful for picking up adds as it's off the GCD.

The fact that if a warrior is going to be dedicated to off-tanking (i.e. tanking mobs which are not up 100% of the time) they have to completely rely on 2 PLD skills in order to do it something should strike you with that. Particularly if you are for some reason claiming WAR is a BETTER offtank. Because they absolutely are not.

So what does that leave WAR with as a niche? If their only niche is to be a tank when there are no PLD around that's not a niche at all. It's simply being inferior.

[Wangstrong]

I don't understand why this "off tank" label is considered inferior.

Because there's almost no need for an off-tank in this game. 90% of the current content gives you no use for a second tank, and it can even be argued that warrior's aren't in fact the better off-tanks due to a general lack of tankiness. Besides, since when was "off-tank" a valid role and something that it's reasonable to devote an entire class to? It just doesn't make sense. The classes need to be equally good, and it should be possible to accomplish that without making them identical.

[Araye]

Please, call me naive.

I feel that if the developers designed the game with two different classes as tank, then the game can be completed with either class.

I don't see one as "better" then the other. Each has benefits and limitations.

Isn't it for us, the players, to learn the pluses and minuses of the character we are using and develop tactics to exploit the benefits and mitigate the weaknesses?

Isn't that what this is about? Isn't that the point of rolling a character in the first place?

On day one, you make a choice. End game is the consequence of that choice. All classes/jobs/whatever can complete the game, but whether you are successful or not is based on if you learned "how to play the character".

Am I not correct? If so, I don't see the point of this discussion.

Oh and thanks SE for the server fixes! I can now play!

Love,

Masha

[Hachiko]

Am I not correct? If so, I don't see the point of this discussion.

Oh and thanks SE for the server fixes! I can now play!

Love,

Masha

The point of the discussion is whether or not both classes are able to complete the game like in your second line.