I just plain don't like the current battle system...

[RichardButte]

It's slow, cumbersome, barely interactive and just all around not fun.

Things that could be done to improve it:

1. Faster reaction times to improve immersion

The fact that I press the button and a second and a half later my character executes the attack completely disconnects me from the action and ruins immersion. I feel more like I'm a ghost floating over the character's shoulder telling them what to do than the actual character. When I push a button, I want something to HAPPEN, not for it to happen at some point later to be determined by lag, queued actions, etc.

2. More reasons to react to the situation

Mobs don't do many things that require reaction, the only exception being TP attacks, most of which have too short of a charge time for the player to react with an attack to interrupt the move (not that players have many attacks that can interrupt TP attacks, mind you). This means that the average "fight" is little more than spamming attacks and hoping the enemy runs out of HP first. With no real "twitch" gameplay in this game, combat needs to have some element of strategy to it and I mean BASIC fights with even the lowest level mobs need to have some element of strategy. We shouldn't have to fight NMs to experience interesting combat.

3. Fewer abilities that do more

I can't help but see many of the actions/abilities we acquire as simply not being worth the space on my action bar, especially when that space could go to a more useful action. I'd rather see half of the abilities culled out or rolled into the same attack.

4. More ACTIVE abilities!

We need fewer abilities that meddle with our stats or do something for our next attack and more abilities that DO SOMETHING when we push the button. Give us more stuns on command, knockback on command, abilities that influence the battle WHEN WE PUSH THE BUTTON instead of later on.

5. Why do we have stamina AND cooldowns?!

One or the other would be fine, but why do we have both? The whole point of stamina would be to limit the number of actions a player can take within a certain period of time. The whole point of cooldowns is to...limit the number of actions a player can take within a certain period of time. The battle system doesn't need both stamina AND cooldowns. My vote would be for removing the stamina bar as it adds nothing to the game, since there is no semblance of "stamina management", just mash the button silly to ensure the attacks happen as fast as possible.

If we're going to have a stamina gauge, it should do something to enhance the battle system, not simply limit the amount of stuff you can do, as cooldowns do that for us already.

For example, make it so stamina isn't used by normal attacks, but:

-Hold the attack button (of whatever attack it is) to allot more stamina to the attack. More stamina = more damage, but less chance to hit (like DnD's classic "power attack").

-Use an ability to turn stamina into MP in the middle of a fight.

-Ability that allows you to burn stamina to run at 2X speed until you run out of stamina.

-Ability that burns your stamina down but multiplies your evasion rate by 4X while doing so.

-Ability that doubles your magic potency and your casting speed while burning your stamina down.

-Ability that doubles your damage output while burning stamina.

All of these would make for very strategic choices the player would get to make, and more choices is what makes a game fun.

As it stands, I just can't see bothering to level to 50 in any class under the current battle system. It needs to do something to keep me awake through a fight and right now, it just doesn't.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Reading the title I didn't think there would be a case worth reading within. Contrary to my initial perception, you have a good argument here. And much to my surprise, I agree. I think the biggest limitation in the battle system is the stamina bar. Before it runs out, I feel like I'm doing something, but once it does, the whole feeling comes grinding to a halt while I wait for my stamina to refill. That's certainly not a place I like to be in a tight situation.

[RichardButte]

Reading the title I didn't think there would be a case worth reading within. Contrary to my initial perception, you have a good argument here. And much to my surprise, I agree. I think the biggest limitation in the battle system is the stamina bar. Before it runs out, I feel like I'm doing something, but once it does, the whole feeling comes grinding to a halt while I wait for my stamina to refill. That's certainly not a place I like to be in a tight situation.

That raises another good point I forgot about...

I'll edit that into the original post.

[BlaiseLallaise]

I was actually thinking of starting a discussion on the effects that removing the stamina gauge would have on the battle system. Perhaps this thread can serve as that discussion. Personally, I see no reason why they couldn't borrow the concept of a global cool down from another big name MMO to act as the limiter to action spamming. That could allow for the removal of the stamina gauge.

[RichardButte]

I was actually thinking of starting a discussion on the effects that removing the stamina gauge would have on the battle system. Perhaps this thread can serve as that discussion. Personally, I see no reason why they couldn't borrow the concept of a global cool down from another big name MMO to act as the limiter to action spamming. That could allow for the removal of the stamina gauge.

Fine by me.

The stamina gauge adds nothing to the game. Things would be different if there was some way to choose to use more or less stamina to some effect or managing stamina actually meant something. It's just an artificial limiter on how fast you can fire off attacks/spells, and considering that's all it does, I see no reason for its continued existence.

[zaviermhigo]

I don't get slow from the battle system I mean especially compared to FFXI, but I think that responsiveness problem is typically lag. Spamming actions is my biggest problem, I shouldn't have to be a cure bot for people, the mob should be balanced enough so that all spells and actions could be used (of course these are situational, but 90% of regular mobs don't last long enough to enfeeble)

[RichardButte]

I don't get slow from the battle system I mean especially compared to FFXI, but I think that responsiveness problem is typically lag.

I realize that part of the issue stems from the servers being in Japan, but if that's the case, SE cannot simply resign to the notion that the game will always be slow and unresponsive for anyone outside of Japan.

They might as well just not release the game outside of the US, then, because the disconnect between pressing a button and having the action happen 2 seconds later is a deal breaker for me and will no doubt be the same for millions of other players, especially when we've been spoiled by games that don't suffer the same issues.

You can have these things happen client side first, then happen server side, as in you'll see your character attack the same instant you press a button, and that's fine because the server acknowledges it later.

If SE intends to move forward with the current sluggish system, then I don't know what to tell them except that most MMO players aren't going to put up with it.

[zaviermhigo]

I realize that part of the issue stems from the servers being in Japan, but if that's the case, SE cannot simply resign to the notion that the game will always be slow and unresponsive for anyone outside of Japan.

They might as well just not release the game outside of the US, then, because the disconnect between pressing a button and having the action happen 2 seconds later is a deal breaker for me and will no doubt be the same for millions of other players, especially when we've been spoiled by games that don't suffer the same issues.

This also depends on how far you are from japan, I don't tend to get as much lag as those in the east coast. Honestly every game has this, if you want to play WoW in Europe you will get more lag, they do have european servers I dont get why they are not as great. Square Enix has servers in California (they did for back up for XI) they should implement some of their servers in California to fix this lag problem for the U.S., and if Euros have one too use Square Enix Europe in France.

[RichardButte]

This also depends on how far you are from japan, I don't tend to get as much lag as those in the east coast. Honestly every game has this, if you want to play WoW in Europe you will get more lag, they do have european servers I dont get why they are not as great. Square Enix has servers in California (they did for back up for XI) they should implement some of their servers in California to fix this lag problem for the U.S., and if Euros have one too use Square Enix Europe in France.

I'm on the east coast and it's horrendous for me.

Like I said, client side action would help SOO much with this, but actual servers in the US would also be a godsend.

[BlaiseLallaise]

This also depends on how far you are from japan, I don't tend to get as much lag as those in the east coast. Honestly every game has this, if you want to play WoW in Europe you will get more lag, they do have european servers I dont get why they are not as great. Square Enix has servers in California (they did for back up for XI) they should implement some of their servers in California to fix this lag problem for the U.S., and if Euros have one too use Square Enix Europe in France.

That is a nice idea, but you know how hell-bent they are on allowing people from different regions the ability to play together. To put in different servers regionally would be to force people to either connect to the closest server or put up with the distance lag if they wanted to play with people from different regions. I suppose cloning is an option, but they would need some massive bandwidth to have regional clones that constantly sync up with the home servers. Since I am involved in a linkshell with both NA and EU players, that would put all of us in a tough spot.