Why is SMN DPS so high?

[Trihuuger]

Summoner doesn't "feel" strong likely because we're used to our retard duty finder tanks. There are a lot of things the tank (and to a lesser extent the rest of the group) needs to do to let a Summoner maximally do what it can do:

First and foremost when there are adds, we need to either spread existing DoT's to them, or if we do have to hard cast them over again, spread the newly casted DoT's back to the main target. It is a tremendous mana dump and DPS loss to have to sit there and just DoT things one at a time w/o Bane.

Threat. O M G Threat. On the off-chance you do manage to find a tank that will position mobs favorably for the first issue, (so like maybe 3/10), you then need to find one that has a clue how to hold them. So far 0 duty finder tanks have achieved both stipulations even after asking them to do so. Usually just met with "single target" responses that you'd expect from someone that's got no idea. Thankfully Demon Wall itself doesn't appear to do a tremendous amount of tank damage as I ALWAYS have threat on it while the two Eyes are up (Many fail groups, so typically I drag the one eye I'm tanking over to the tank who has at the time the 2nd eye and the wall, spread AIDS I put up on the first eye when he's both centrally positioned and the second eye is close enough, contagion the boss, and ruin down the 2nd eye with a fester depending on aether charges/CD of aetherflow while keeping shadowflare going)

Some of the blame falls on the Summoners as well. We have to manage the pet (Pet abilities, healing the pet with sustain, and telling the dumb ass where to move to not die to stupid), 4 DoTs (5 including Miasma II when using Contagion/have more than 2 mobs around), a ground targetted AoE, Aetherflow charges (mainly staying awake enough to know when to burn/save them), Archer CD's, and pet buffing actions (rouse/spur/enkindle). This is well over 20 buttons including macros that we're actively using. Movement to escape ground target AoE's needs to be done instantly so there is no way to even hope to click any of these and still do well. This is by no means an easy class to play well.

[MrEzekial]

A parser does not need to be office to be accurate.

[Thane]

Darklight body may suck as far as secondary stats go, but Vitality is damn useful in endgame.

[Ryuko]

I don't trust parsers yet because I haven't seen a single person claim that a parser has gotten DoT parsing correct yet. It's inconsistent, it's buggy, it's not accurate because as far as I understand it, DoT damage does not show up in the log. However, I can attest to the fact that summoner can, at the very least, keep up with other classes.

More often than not, the following scenario occurs...

Encounter begins. After a few seconds, all DPS solidify their 'number' on the aggro meter. Healers are usually somewhere in between the best and the worst dps. Over time, summoners slowly climb to the top. Consistently. I usually end an encounter at number two if there is just a main tank on the boss or number three if both tanks are competing for hate. My gear is not amazing (darklight, hero's jewelry, Ifrit weapon), so I do not really think summoner has 'better' dps than other classes... However, we certainly do have our 'role' in parties.

I think we are about even... but here is where we are different: while other classes need to stop DPS on one thing to start on another, we can have DoTs rolling on the main boss while turning around, spreading DoTs, and nuking down adds. Summoner really shines when you need to keep consistent damage on the boss while at the same time killing adds that keep spawning. If you know when adds will spawn, you can make sure to refresh your DoTs right before they spawn and you need to switch targets. If you are commanding Garuda, you can tell her to use the DoT extension ability right after you cast these... giving you a good 20+ seconds of consistent damage on the boss while you are killing adds.

It is common knowledge that our burst DPS is not very good, but if you know a fight REALLY well, you can time when it would be a good idea to spread your DoTs. (Example: make sure to refresh your DoTs right after Garuda finishes a jump so that you can Bane immediately when the plumes spawn. If you time it right, you can spread all three SMN DoTs to the plumes before they 'spread out'. This will make it easier for all DPS to kill the adds since DoTs are ticking while you attack one at a time.)

Tldr; SMN is good if you know how to play it. Not better or worse, but we certainly have our place in endgame.

[glim]

@Ryuko, it's right not to trust the parses at this stage just yet that's true, but I did try to compare the dps showing on the parses and doing my dps on a training dummy. here is what I did, I did a full rotation for 2 minutes on a target dummy while my brother jots down all the dots he sees and add them all up, and get all the numbers in the combat log and add them all up as well, we summed it and divideded it by 120 seconds, the results are very consistent with the parses, give or take a few dps.

[Ryuko]

@Ryuko, it's right not to trust the parses at this stage just yet that's true, but I did try to compare the dps showing on the parses and doing my dps on a training dummy. here is what I did, I did a full rotation for 2 minutes on a target dummy while my brother jots down all the dots he sees and add them all up, and get all the numbers in the combat log and add them all up as well, we summed it and divideded it by 120 seconds, the results are very consistent with the parses, give or take a few dps.

While I commend you for your research, dummy dps isn't going to be accurate... when are we ever going to have two minutes to just stand there and deal out all the DPS we possibly can? Even in fights were we have one target and don't have to move TOO much (Ifrit hard for example), we still have to move a little bit... and sometimes you have to waste mana on other things, like resing someone or helping out by healing yourself after an AoE. Without a bard feeding you mp, you'll eventually have to slow down on your Fester spam and switch to Energy drain as needed. That will lower your dps. If you're going to spend the time to figure out what our 'maximum' damage output is, you should also do the same research with every other possible DPS when they are able to 'stand still' and attack a dummy. As I said, SMN really shines because our damage keeps going as we have to move... so in the end, in a realistic situation, our damage output 'could' potentially be higher... but I doubt it will be on a dummy alone.

[glim]

@ryuko

I'm not addressing the fact that real situation dps can be lower because of movement, since it's plainly obvious, I'm addressing that even though the DPS parses is not accurate, it is somewhat consistent with the numbers in game. I don't even know where you caught the idea that I was somehow saying that dummy dps = real time dps when I never even let out a number.

[glim]

also, we still can have our dps uptime to 100% that comparable to a stand still dummy because of ruin II and swiftcast. though this is not the point I'm addressing.

edit: we're amazing in movement fights not just because of dots but on dots AND our ability to still cast filler spells on the move.

[Ryuko]

also, we still can have our dps uptime to 100% that comparable to a stand still dummy because of ruin II and swiftcast. though this is not the point I'm addressing.

edit: we're amazing in movement fights not just because of dots but on dots AND our ability to still cast filler spells on the move.

True, I love that we can throw Ruin II on the move, even if the MP cost is significantly higher than Ruin I.

Anyway, the reason I mentioned it is because if we are going to look at a summoner's overall DPS, we should also look at other classes and see how they compare versus dummies on strict numbers alone -- not when they have to move, use utility abilities, etc. I'm just curious to see how everyone compared across the board.