Anti-Speed Run Mechanism

[Feilina]

As Turbine, developer of LOTRO, released Mines of Moria the instances had a similar problem. They made some pretty nice dungeons wih good mechanics but parts of the community decided to EXPLOIT their way through the bosses.
The solution was pretty simple. A door was built in front of many bosses and a trigger group of enemies was placed/moved to the door. Those who ran had an overwhelming situation.

Giving more tokens for clearing all enemies is just not the solution. As long as the dungeon could be run in time X and be more efficient than killing all creepers...

SE put a good amount of time and work in those dungeons, let's praise em for that work.
If you're put in group with runners let em run, report em while they run. They mostly can't kill the boss without you.

Seriously: It is an EXPLOIT!

[Amas]

Seriously: It is an EXPLOIT!

Incentives do work better. Considering Amdapor Keep is being run in an exploitative method, I think we've gotten spoiled with it.

A bit of arguing semantics, but it's not an exploit until SE confirms it as such.

Right now, it's best described as "unanticipated player behavior" (or even anticipated player behavior, we don't know, heh). We, as the player base, decided to take a different path for the content than the one obviously presented to us.

This was done because it was in our best interests as players to do so. Some players find the experience rewarding in and of itself indefinitely (e.g. Feilina). Most people, however, find the experience fun a few times and then the repetition becomes boredom unless there's some other motivator. The drops and the tomestones become that motivator, because those hold value to more players for longer.

Players will always do what's in our best interest. If the current method of speed running is eliminated, we'll find others, or look for content that's a better cost:reward ratio. AK simply isn't worth running if you have to kill the trash, unless it changes to more than offset repair costs.

[Mikai]

You can not report players for not wanting to waste there time. Most of the players from 1.0 like myself have every job at 50 but some do not. Trash mobs that give you nothing worth while for killing them will always be skipped. These players that want to speed run are not at fault at all I started doing said dungeons the beginning of the week i was told to speed run i honestly didn't get why and did not like it but then after doing it several times i understood why. Then you have the new players to which dont get why ppl wanna do speed runs whcih i sympathize with cause they are never told why or the strategy before the tank decides to just start running off. Then there are the new players who think they are the shit and ruin it for everyone else or try to play this game like say WoW or any other MMO.

[Sneakaboo]

Making it more tedious should not be the way of fixing an issue.
People said it before

- Your repair costs are a lot higher if you clear trash
- Trash doesn't drop anything
- It takes longer
- This is the only instance to farm

Now you give people the option to skip trash.
What do you think that will happen?

You solve problems like this by

- Making trash fun (it can be done)
- Make them drop items
- Have more instances


They might as well remove all the trash in that instance, there is no difference in the experience there.
It's mindless dull and not rewarding.

[MBTL90]

The thing I don't get is, for those who don't want to speed run, do you really get enjoyment out of clearing trash? I mean, I could understand if you don't want to get rushed through castrum or praetorium, but the trash provides literally 0 value. You don't skip the bosses or anything, which have interesting mechanics and look cool. You just waste your time killing the same mobs over and over.

You people must have loved Molten Core or Serpent Shrine Cavern in WoW.

[Feilina]

The thing I don't get is, for those who don't want to speed run, do you really get enjoyment out of clearing trash? I mean, I could understand if you don't want to get rushed through castrum or praetorium, but the trash provides literally 0 value. You don't skip the bosses or anything, which have interesting mechanics and look cool. You just waste your time killing the same mobs over and over.

I do! I really like that. I like to appreciate the work done in those dungeons. I like to PLAY their intended way. In fact I couldn't care less about the tokens or loot a boss drops if the whole was made pretty well.

Let me ask you. What is your intention to do a dungeon? Loot, Challenge, the next Dungeon, being the first?
Would you run dungeons with only one Boss?

[Sepiriz]

I do! I really like that. I like to appreciate the work done in those dungeons. I like to PLAY their intended way. In fact I couldn't care less about the tokens or loot a boss drops if the whole was made pretty well.

Let me ask you. What is your intention to do a dungeon? Loot, Challenge, the next Dungeon, being the first?
Would you run dungeons with only one Boss?

The thing is, that most games nowadays give you something for killing the trash. Maybe Sell-loot, rare-drops, crafting materials, some sort of secondary xp gain (factions, alternate achievement xp, or something similar) or just plain old money. That is what most dungeon runners have come to expect, and here they are greeted with the exact opposite (every trash mob killed is money and time wasted, with no return gained).

This is especially visible in the dungeon finder, where people most likely don't group for the friendly, social experience, but for the reward the dungeon run nets them. Like it or not, that is pretty much the truth, and i can't even be mad at them .. why bother being "social" when there is no chance to ever see the people you group with again. If you view it this way, speedrunning/trash-skipping is the logical conclusion. You might want to do a slow run, the first time .. to learn the ways, to watch the scenery, but after the 10th, 50th, 100th time doing the same thing over and over again .. everyone who violently argues against speedrunning under all circumstances just seems to lack basic empathy.

[Feilina]

The thing is, that most games nowadays give you something for killing the trash. Maybe Sell-loot, rare-drops, crafting materials, some sort of secondary xp gain (factions, alternate achievement xp, or something similar) or just plain old money. That is what most dungeon runners have come to expect, and here they are greeted with the exact opposite (every trash mob killed is money and time wasted, with no return gained).

It is killing trash, do you really expect getting pink loot on a predictable rate?
There is a secondary XP gain -> Materia and soul binding
Do the math with pink items and a good "white" crafted one with materia in it.

This is especially visible in the dungeon finder, where people most likely don't group for the friendly, social experience, but for the reward the dungeon run nets them. Like it or not, that is pretty much the truth, and i can't even be mad at them .. why bother being "social" when there is no chance to ever see the people you group with again. If you view it this way, speedrunning/trash-skipping is the logical conclusion. You might want to do a slow run, the first time .. to learn the ways, to watch the scenery, but after the 10th, 50th, 100th time doing the same thing over and over again .. everyone who violently argues against speedrunning under all circumstances just seems to lack basic empathy.

Begin to enjoy playing and stop to work. Is it really your intention to break the intended way just to get loot? Loot seems to be the only thing you enjoy, you don't even realise that there are 2nd exp gains...

[Sepiriz]

Begin to enjoy playing and stop to work. Is it really your intention to break the intended way just to get loot? Loot seems to be the only thing you enjoy, you don't even realise that there are 2nd exp gains...

A long time ago i have learned to stop arguing with people like you. Have a nice day.

[Mikai]

I do not think you got anything that she said. Spirit bonding now compared to 1.0 is SOOOOOOOOOOO easy go to Natalan kill some wolves done spirit bond completed. Really you wanna keep looking at the textures and scenery after the 25th time in that dungeon wow you will not last in this game or any MMO for that matter when it comes to endgame.