Tonberry Progression Thread

[RapBreon]

Unfortunately incredibly inaccurate as progression is based on exploration, doesn't require 8 people to have the achievement to register and there's no achievement for turn 4.

Apparently it ranks based on date cleared compared to the 'world first'. It seems to been at least an accurate indicator of the top three guilds relative to this post. Correct me if I'm wrong, but only one person in the FC would have to have the achievement and have it set to public for it to register the FC and then check the dates compared to 'world first'.

Additionally, this post is inaccurate as well after the top three, heaps of guilds haven't registered their interest. Seems to be decent for cross-referencing at bare minimum. Still surprised no-one linked it prior (or I'm blind). But thanks for the heads up, it's probably for the best its accuracy was questioned so people didn't cling to it. I didn't ferret like I should've, I'm a bad.

http://www.xivarmory.com/faq

That's my understanding of it anyway.

Also, compare them ilvls to see who has a leg up on the race to Twintania server first man, that is where the real fun is!

P.S it's not me, tank shit never drops.

[Sylvanna]

snip

Damn, was just going to link it when I saw your post on the previous page.

P.S Tank shit does drop. Once in a month.

[RapBreon]

Damn, was just going to link it when I saw your post on the previous page.

P.S Tank shit does drop. Once in a month.

Server first link! Bow to me!

Counter P.S and if it does, a randy we bring along wins it instead, the entire time spamming RoH out of combo (hnnnnnnnng).

[Sylvanna]

Server first link! Bow to me!

Counter P.S and if it does, a randy we bring along wins it instead, the entire time spamming RoH out of combo (hnnnnnnnng).

/bow

Heh RoH spam... seen my fair share of that ;p

[SezaruRei]

Xivarmory lacks a few things:
1. Specific bosses killed
2. Specific server firsts
3. Date/time of last kill

Its method of tracking progression by exploration achievements is also exploitable. Get another guild to zone you into each turn for the achievements and tada xivarmory thinks you've killed those bosses. Also as you've mentioned, only 1 person in the FC needs the achievements and it'll count for the entire FC - i shouldn't have to explain why this is bad. Also, most progression threads - this one included - only list guilds that want to be listed. It is a voluntary opt-in listing.

[RapBreon]

Xivarmory lacks a few things:
1. Specific bosses killed
2. Specific server firsts
3. Date/time of last kill

Its method of tracking progression by exploration achievements is also exploitable. Get another guild to zone you into each turn for the achievements and tada xivarmory thinks you've killed those bosses. Also as you've mentioned, only 1 person in the FC needs the achievements and it'll count for the entire FC - i shouldn't have to explain why this is bad. Also, most progression threads - this one included - only list guilds that want to be listed. It is a voluntary opt-in listing.

Syncness covered this, I agreed, it's far from complete. Allow me however to demonstrate its value. Check the first post of this thread, then check the link. Notice the massive gap between Eikon and Mirai (apparently 3rd and 5th?), there are what would appear to be far more contenders for Twintania that this thread would have you believe.

While in hind-sight I should have probably explained in my original post the value of it, I'll reiterate; multiple sources is a boon. They both fill out each others gap in information and point out inconsistencies (which this thread is also in possession of).

As for it being exploitable and its method of tracking, for this content cycle it would hardly be relevant. It would've been too early to release date for people to care - or know -about having some server first FC let them have an exploration achievement to whack off to and at this stage, whilst people would care, almost anybody serious enough to kill Twins has done T4 legit. Sweeping statements, I agree; but if a Dark Horse who needed a run to Twins to feel better about their ego randomly got world first on Twintania, I would...I don't even know what I would do.

TL;DR: value in cross-referencing, mkkkkkkkkkkk. Next time I'll be sure to leave a thesis explaining my actions :P

[SezaruRei]

Most of the guilds between Eikon and Mirai are JP guilds, of which i have heard do a combined Coil raid. If only 1-3 members from each FC cleared turns 1-4, do you think they deserve that 'ranking' on xivarmory? That's why i only update confirmed kills in this thread and only grant credit to FCs with at least 80% of their members present. Also some guilds prefer not to be listed (well known WoW guild Nurfed opted out of its server's progression thread for years), which is why i don't presume to add anyone unless they request it.

You seem to misunderstand what i meant about exploiting the tracking. If a guild had to get a free pass into coil for the achievements, they won't be killing Twintania at all (no gear and more importantly no skill - else they would have gotten to turn 5 themselves). If an FC does do this then their listing on xivarmory is clearly misrepresentation, but no one can tell.

(1000 character limit wtf? Continued in next post...)

[SezaruRei]

The main usefulness of xivarmory is as a general comparison between FCs of different servers, most top FCs already know about xivarmory without being told, and most also take its rankings with a huge grain of salt. Long delays in Lodestone updates, further magnified by xivarmory's own slow updating really hampers its reliability and accuracy. As an example, my summoner gear profile is still outdated by a week, because the xivarmory scan didn't coincide with lodestone showing my summoner job/gear.

A progression thread still has great value, certainly more than the woefully inadequate server page on xivarmory.



edit: Oh and also, xivarmory uses exploration achievements for ranking, and there is no achievement for turn 4, which means that the current rankings are only representative of who cleared turn 2 and explored turn 3 faster.

[RapBreon]

Most of the guilds between Eikon and Mirai are JP guilds, of which i have heard do a combined Coil raid. If only 1-3 members from each FC cleared turns 1-4, do you think they deserve that 'ranking' on xivarmory?

Absolutely, did the boss not yield loot to them? I would recommend making a note however calling it a combined attempt, or whatever organisational title that makes people feel better, so as to not upset the patriotic. The point is they may not have all had the same tag, but that group did kill the boss, thus are a certain depth into progression, this could mean that despite differing tags could still be contending for a milestone. Let me ask you, if they got world/region/server first Twins, do they deserve it because they weren't in the possession of the same tag?

That's why i only update confirmed kills in this thread and only grant credit to FCs with at least 80% of their members present. Also some guilds prefer not to be listed (well known WoW guild Nurfed opted out of its server's progression thread for years), which is why i don't presume to add anyone unless they request it.

Hence the gaps.

You seem to misunderstand what i meant about exploiting the tracking. If a guild had to get a free pass into coil for the achievements, they won't be killing Twintania at all (no gear and more importantly no skill - else they would have gotten to turn 5 themselves). If an FC does do this then their listing on xivarmory is clearly misrepresentation, but no one can tell.

That is exactly what I said about it's relevancy in the way it tracks. Maybe I wasn't clear.

Additionally, you can tell by digging around, check their average Ilvl and then check the pieces of the highest Ilvl (Allagan or heroes?). Check the ones with the achievements. Cross-reference with the loot-tables. If they got run they'd be missing certain pieces. It's just time consuming. Doable but pointless, because they wouldn't be contenders anyway, due to the above point of people exploiting the system so early into the games life as to get a 'fake progression boost', would be...unprobable at best. However, it would become more relevant next content cycle where the system is more well known.

(1000 character limit wtf? Continued in next post...)

Coding is terrible, you can edit posts after you've posted them and exceed the limit.

The main usefulness of xivarmory is as a general comparison between FCs of different servers, most top FCs already know about xivarmory without being told, and most also take its rankings with a huge grain of salt.

Oh yes, it should be taken with a grain of salt, just like this page should be, but when our forces combine we make Captain less questionable! Also more than top guilds have posted in this thread, thus it may be a useful link for them.

A progression thread still has great value, certainly more than the woefully inadequate server page on xivarmory.

Which was never my point, my point which I have pointed out twice now is this;

multiple sources is a boon

I would like BOTH to exist. I'm not even defending it's reliability, nor have I been, I've been defending its usefulness combined with this thread. Even the most inaccurate information source is useful as an orientation device, as long as it is supplemented by something else. The fact it was never linked in a thread like this is questionable though.

[SezaruRei]

edit: Oh and also, xivarmory uses exploration achievements for ranking, and there is no achievement for turn 4, which means that the current rankings are only representative of who cleared turn 2 and explored turn 3 faster.

The above makes xivarmory not even useful as a second source, unless you're only interested in turn 2 rankings. Also, this thread was made before the existence of xivarmory, and with the current state its in i never saw it fit to be linked.