Can't play The Binding Coil of Bahamut with friends

[Zirael_Foxfire]

Hi,
I have more than two friends playing as a tank and two friends with whom we can play only on weekend.
So, in regards of the tank friends, every week we have to turn one down from joining Coil runs.
And in regards to people playing mostly on weekends, the rest of our group is supposed to do what? Either get our Coil clear during week or sit around doing nothing waiting for the weekend?

Was it so hard to introduce tokens for each Turn clear you can get only once a week, but you can enter the battle as many times as you want with as many different friends as you wish?
So much for encouraging us to build up a community... As of now, we're pigeon-holed into 9-man clicques composed of exactly 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS. :/ And don't give me 'just change job' - 300 tomes of Mythology per week prevents any such ideas even IF I fancied playing something else.

[Pellegri]

Was it so hard to introduce tokens for each Turn clear you can get only once a week, but you can enter the battle as many times as you want with as many different friends as you wish?
So much for encouraging us to build up a community... As of now, we're pigeon-holed into 9-man clicques composed of exactly 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS. :/ And don't give me 'just change job' - 300 tomes of Mythology per week prevents any such ideas even IF I fancied playing something else.

Sure, WTS BINDING COIL TURN - RUNS 500K EACH. That it what you would get with that system, you and others may not like it that way but with the community how it is and the difficulty of atleast turn 1 you cannot have nice things like that. Wait for the community to stop going down the drain(if it ever does) and wait for difficulty to be to the point where groups cannot carry another person and you may get those nice things you're wanting so much.

[ChickensEvil]

If these were people that you knew you would start playing with from the beginning, why did you not plan this a little better? Hey bob, what are you playing? Oh, I wanna be a PLD, ok cool, and Bill? He is going WAR. Well, I guess since we only need two tanks I will roll a DRG. Ok cool! For a group of people you play together with frequently, sounds like you don't do a lot of... you know... communicating...

Not trying to be mean, but I am not sure where you ever thought you would need more than 2 tanks, when most content is 1 tank-able. This just seems silly to me.

Regarding your, 300 myth tome cap preventing you from playing another class, I feel I should point out, that you only need DL to clear up through turn 4, and DL works on more than one class... generally speaking (the physical dps are the exception to this it seems) and even at that, you can still farm those up rather quickly if you wanted to switch roles. Is it boring as hell? Yes... but doable. Better to switch now, before you spend your myth tomes... just saying...

[Zirael_Foxfire]

If these were people that you knew you would start playing with from the beginning, why did you not plan this a little better? Hey bob, what are you playing? Oh, I wanna be a PLD, ok cool, and Bill? He is going WAR. Well, I guess since we only need two tanks I will roll a DRG. Ok cool! For a group of people you play together with frequently, sounds like you don't do a lot of... you know... communicating...

Not trying to be mean, but I am not sure where you ever thought you would need more than 2 tanks, when most content is 1 tank-able. This just seems silly to me.

Regarding your, 300 myth tome cap preventing you from playing another class, I feel I should point out, that you only need DL to clear up through turn 4, and DL works on more than one class... generally speaking (the physical dps are the exception to this it seems) and even at that, you can still farm those up rather quickly if you wanted to switch roles. Is it boring as hell? Yes... but doable. Better to switch now, before you spend your myth tomes... just saying...

We come from other games before this obviously. Specifically, pretty much all of us were hardcore FFXI players at the least. I was THF main and that's my preference. And guess what? There are no THF/Assassin in this game, so for the group's good I've rolled SCH, but I'm not entirely happy about it. If they add THF to this game, I'll be jumping in immediately. But then I'll have to wait like 15-20 weeks to have it geared in full AF2 and relic+1 because of stupid Tomes of Mythology cap per CHARACTER and not PER JOB.
Another guy played PUP main and PLD second. He had FFXIV 1.0 collector's edition unopened on his shelf since game launch, but refused to touch it, because there were no PUPs (or any pet class) in this game. But now we pretty much all moved to 14, FF11 is dead ghost town, so he had little choice but to move. Unfortunately SMN avatars in this game are hideous, so he rolled PLD.


You might not grasp the idea, but there are people who enjoy a particular play style and aren't interested in bandwagoning something else because the game tells you to TANK TANK HEAL HEAD DD DD DD DD or GTFO. Also, prior to The Binding Coil of Bahamut you are never locked to playing a dungeon only 1 time and then can't retry it. So how people were supposed to know we won't be able to enjoy the top content in the game as a group? So about your suggestion to become a bandwagon whore and spend Tomes of Mythology on the 'correct' job - no thanks.
Again, it's not about us needing 3 tanks, it's about us enjoying playing a tank. None of us wouldn't mind doing Turn clears twice on the jobs we enjoy instead of doing it once on jobs we were forced into.

I'm especially worried about friend playing only on weekends in our event time. What am I supposed to tell him? Sorry, we've cleared this earlier. Even had to pick some random people to fill in the right jobs. We got our drops but can't do it with you 'cause one try only. Go join a shout, I guess? Let us know how it went, hell, make a video since we won't be able to tag along and see how you did.
I don't see him playing this game too log if the highest we can go is Amdapor Keep book farm with him. The game is for us, not us for the game. We should be able to enjoy it's content in it's entirety.

As for your fears of people selling clears and whatnot - I don't care. If that's what people enjoy doing, let them. Does other people buying Titan wins stop you from playing and enjoying your game? Just because there are RMT duping gil right and left, everyone should be capped at 100k gil?

[BlossomRose]

1. You should have planned around this. The end-game content was pretty clearly identified as 8 man, 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps, and regular content as 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps.

2. If you have too many friends, form a second group. Recruit people into your "clique" and be social. If your current roster of friends looks like: 3 tanks, 2 healers, 5 dps, then I strongly suggest you recruit more friends until it looks like 4 tanks, 4 healers, 8 dps.

3. Crystal Tower will be 24 man, divided into three standard 8 man parties. You will be able to do that, through the Duty Finder, with as many friends as you want, provided you don't go past the 6 tanks, 6 healers and 12 dps limit.

4. As was mentioned above, you could just have your friends swap classes/jobs until your roster is equalized.

5. Allowing people to multi-run Coil would lead in a surplus of gear, of tokens, or of runs, such as, yes, as was mentioned, people selling runs to less skilled individuals (like is happening with Titan, for the Relic weapons).

6. You do not get locked out of Coil if you fail. If you run out of time, you can exit and re-enter just fine. The only constraint is that you can only COMPLETE each Turn a single time per week, and you can't complete Turns lower than the highest you completed for that week, meaning do them in order or else you'll lose your chance at loot. Do not call them "tries" because you're making it sound like it's based on failure, not success.

7. It is your responsibility to create a raiding schedule with your friends, not SE's. If some people in your group can only raid during weekends, then you should wait until the weekend to raid. Turns 1-4 are not so hard that you can't do them all in a single night, or in two if you're having a hard time.

7b. If you have friends who can only play on Mondays and others who can only play on Tuesdays and then others who can only play on weekends, this is again, not SE's issue. You need to organize your friends and make a schedule; if you can't put them all into a single run, again, RECRUIT.

8. You claim SE is holing people up into 8 man cliques, but you yourself are holing yourself in a clique by refusing to recruit more people into it so that you could just have two groups instead of one doing Coil. SE has given you a great excuse to recruit more people and form many groups, and you're complaining that you want to only have one group and not have to deal with outsiders. How is this in any way "building a community"? You built a clique and are refusing to deal with the actual community.

8b. If you're worried about having 7 friends with you in one group, and 1 friend in another group, split it up. Take 4 of your friends in one group, and have the four others in the second group. Recruit a bunch of people, make new friends. Win/win.

That's all I've got, though, sorry.

Either way you seem to be looking at this from an all-problems no-solutions standpoint. Unfortunately, SE has enough on its plate already without trying to organize your own raids for you. There's a ton of different solutions here, but the one you really should consider is to recruit people into your clique and actually do that "building a community" thing you were talking about. Unless you're that adamant about playing ONLY with your friends, in which case you're pretty much out of luck.

[RapBreon]

You might not grasp the idea, but there are people who enjoy a particular play style and aren't interested in bandwagoning something else because the game tells you to TANK TANK HEAL HEAD DD DD DD DD or GTFO.

Other games have tried this *cough GW2 cough* and it turned out to be pretty much the shittiest form of co-op PvE to ever occur. Their ability to design a fight because everybody could do everything was so hamstrung it was painful. By enforcing a model, they have a lot more creative mobility to tune and create fights.

It's like setting the rules, if you had no rules, they're ironically restricting themselves. They can't create anything overly difficult or complex without 'forcing certain group set-ups' anyway, which would just lead to the same complaint you're bringing up, but worse because they'd be undermining their own design philosophy. By giving us a certain style of play they can tune to that style to a much tighter (thus, more challenging, complex and tactical) degree. That's the idea anyway. The Trinity is beautiful!

Imagine Chess with no model of play, everybody would just pick 15 Queens + King and the game would be just stupid.

Uh, I just thought of something, which may render everything above obsolete (which is more of a rant anyway). Uh if you're in a pre-organised group of 8, you can bring any combat class. You can take 3 tanks, 5 healers and 1 DD if you wanted to.

So just I dunno, get one your tanks to wear DPS accessories and be a DD? Their isn't any brick wall DPS checks except maybe T4 and tanks geared to do DPS actually do respectable DPS. Make a sacrifice so you can optimise your group and play with your friends, rather than to expect coil to just shit loot at you every week because you pay a sub.

Also, I have numerous incredibly loaded opinions with regards to the wall of shit you spew out about what you think you're entitled too. But I'm going to restrain myself or I'm going to start a casual-hardcore cold war. So I'm just going to let you know I disapprove without telling you why :P

Edit: Also, guy above me nailed it pretty spot on.

[BlossomRose]

Their isn't any brick wall DPS checks except maybe T4 and tanks geared to do DPS actually do respectable DPS.

The ADS in Turn 1 is a DPS check, because if you take too long to kill it, it starts spawning adds faster and faster, and it spawns more and more of them. Then it starts EATING them, which heals it. So yes, actually, brick wall right there against bringing in a group with low DPS.

Turn 2 is also a DPS check of a much lesser kind since you have 15 "clicks" to complete three nodes + the ADS, or else you automatically wipe.

And Turn 4 is pretty much nothing but a DPS check again. So's Turn 5 because of the Conflagrations that need to be killed before they explode.

TL;DR: terrible advice, do not bring surplus tanks or healers to Coil, you will probably wipe.

[RapBreon]

The ADS in Turn 1 is a DPS check, because if you take too long to kill it, it starts spawning adds faster and faster, and it spawns more and more of them. Then it starts EATING them, which heals it. So yes, actually, brick wall right there against bringing in a group with low DPS.

Turn 2 is also a DPS check of a much lesser kind since you have 15 "clicks" to complete three nodes + the ADS, or else you automatically wipe.

And Turn 4 is pretty much nothing but a DPS check again. So's Turn 5 because of the Conflagrations that need to be killed before they explode.

TL;DR: terrible advice, do not bring surplus tanks or healers to Coil, you will probably wipe.

Let me rephrase, by 'brick-wall', I meant 'HARD'. I'll admit fault of phrasing here. So if this is where you got caught up, sorry.

In all honesy however, pre T4 aren't even appropriately tuned to be a check of anything besides; "can you taunt and silence". These were designed with ilvl 80 gear in mind, yet you can ass-blast them so easily in ilvl 70 it has me seriously wondering if T1-2 were meant to be beaten by almost anyone who has the urge to raid, which I'm ok with, but I wouldn't pretend you need an optimal set-up to get by them. The fact that you even think the advice is 'terrible' leads me to believe you think the DPS checks for ADS are actually to be taken seriously.

A Tank with a decent set-up can pull 200+DPS. More than enough to get you past these DPS checks. T4 is about the only time you need to step-up your DPS but if you can get past T4 (which would be my only real concern regarding a DPS tank) you got the DPS for conflags.

Probably better to try with their gimped set-up and down 2 ez pz bosses than cry on the forums about having three tanks. If you have four, I'd concede you might need to try something else. And they might probably wipe (which who gives a shit you lose nothing of value for failing), still better than the alternative.

[Starkbeaumont]

Having kinda the same issue. I'd like to do something with the rest of the FC but coil is no option since you can't go back. and primaels and AK/CM/Prae/WP/whatever is just easy grinding but without a real accomplishment.
And this is where I think the basic idea of Crystal Tower not being to tough is a good idea, since you can play with more ppl of your FC/LS even not everyone is "hardcore". Just hoping there is no stupid limitation like in coil and that crystal tower raids take longer than 1hr (cause that is what coil takes to get to turn 5 when you have the strat down...)

[Godlafell]

Just change job. All of Coil can be beat with i70 gear and without relic +1. Excluding Twintania, although I'm willing to bet once the fight is finally beaten flawless i70 groups could still overcome her. (and lets face it, your group is not beating Twintania with or without full i90 sets - so it doesn't matter who has to sit out on Turn 5)

On a side note, expand your clique. You pigeon holed yourself if you think there is only 8 other players on your server you can play with.