Dark Devices - Exploitation

[cainejw]

The rest is just silly? Really? I tried to discuss an alternative and interesting improvement for a fate designed for exactly the purpose you desire.

I'm snipping your post again. You want to know why? It's not germane. You made a claim. That claim is that this is an exploit. I asked you to produce a developer comment that this is an exploit. You cannot do it. You refuse to accept that your statement served one purpose -- you want to stigmatize those who play the game in a way you don't like. Likewise, those who level using DD and FATEs want to stigmatize those who finish the FATEs.

There's no exploiting here. You can dislike it all you want, but there's no exploit. Developers decide what is an exploit. You do not decide what is an exploit. This is the third time I've tried to get that through to you. I doubt it'll get through. You're set on insulting people who played FFXIV: ARR in a way you didn't as "bad."

[CrimsonJenn]

And yet again, rather than discuss the actual issue you resort to fighting over something I have no intention of resolving. It's literally all you have to fight with so your going to keep bringing it up. The Definition of Exploitation is to do something against or around the conventional design of a function. Intentionally not completing an objective falls under that category.

And no, I never once called anyone "bad" nor have I insulted anyone you've done plenty of that regardless of me even trying to appeal to your reasonable or creative side. And as i said before, I don't judge or look down on people for using it i have even discouraged people in this topic from doing so. And it is the third time you've felt the need to insult someone else's opinion more or less you're not trying to get through to anyone. Your not even trying to appeal to a differing view your entering and calling anyone who's opinions differ from yours and idiot and wrong.

Rather than having to resort to grind farming monsters for "easy exp" wouldn't you rather have better more interesting and rewarding fate designs? If this is all you want out of the fate system then by all means stop bumping the topic to get it more recognition and it'll disappear.

[Aikanar]

I find myself in agreement with CrimsonJenn's point of view. In a variation of 'A rose by any other name', this fits the definition of an exploit; it is done using a clearly unintentional game mechanic. Hiding behind a 'devs dind't called it an exploit' excuse is a wacky form of legalistic exploitation as well, one that relies on the fact that SE seldom interacts directly.

I must also thank the OP for giving me another opportunity for personal amusement. Until now I've never heard of the Dark Devices fate, or never paid attention to it. Now, I will purposely look for it and finish it as intended. For great justice!

[celticprince]

The Definition of Exploitation is to do something against or around the conventional design of a function. Intentionally not completing an objective falls under that category.

Intentionally killing mobs for xp chain bonuses is not an exploit. That is working as intended.

ex·ploi·ta·tion
ˌeksploiˈtāSHən/
noun
noun: exploitation; plural noun: exploitations

1. the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.
"the exploitation of migrant workers"
synonyms: taking advantage, abuse, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment, oppression
"the exploitation of the poor"

2. the action of making use of and benefiting from resources.
"the Bronze Age saw exploitation of gold deposits"
synonyms: utilization, use, making use of, making the most of, capitalization on;
informalcashing in on
"the exploitation of mineral resources"
By your definition and the ones I posted above the vast majority of actions taken is an exploit, Grats, you killed one more mob then you needed to finish a quest. EXPLOIT! You bought that spear you needed for your carpenter leve instead of making it your self EXPLOIT!. Until SE comes out and says how people are doing Dark Devices is an exploit it is working as intended. With as many fates and quests i have seen that pretty much allow you to do this and encourages it it seems pretty clear to me this is working as intended and is not an exploit.

[azphyxxxiate]

Maybe they'll just get rid of it altogether Then everyone can just stfu.

[celticprince]

Maybe they'll just get rid of it altogether Then everyone can just stfu.

Wouldn't that be something lol.

[celticprince]

So a real exploit, the speed runs of AK, have been fixed.

from the patch notes:

The following adjustments and countermeasures have been implemented:

-Changes have been made to the behavior and mechanics of the enemies found within the “The Wanderer’s Palace” and “Amdapor Keep” dungeons to counteract instances of players running through the dungeon without engaging enemies on the way to bosses.
As advancing through dungeons without defeating enemies is not an intended strategy, we plan to continue making further changes in the future to discourage this type of behavior.
-In instance dungeon “The Wanderer's Palace” and “Amdapor Keep”, we have increased the amount of AllaganCoins that can be obtained from a treasure chest.

IF dd was such a bad exploit then why was it not addressed as well?

So one real game affecting issue resolved and an auto log out of afk players implemented.
Feel better now people? Can everyone go back to getting along and playing how they see fit and letting SE decide whats an exploit and needs fixing, while leaving each other alone about their play style and refrain from meaningless death threats?

[CrimsonJenn]

The problem is the mobs being killed are not required in any way towards the event yet they spawn endlessly so players take advantage of this, and anyone who tries to finish the event normally is scorned and assaulted. The design of the endlessly spawning mobs is that they slow down the group or act as sort of a minion deterrent like an villain sending his henchmen to slow down the heroes. It adds tension and a fun aspect to the event itself taking advantage of this and just sitting there for 20 minutes was definitely not the intention of the design. Now, if the people doing the event grinded while a small few slowly achieved the goal this would fit the design, you know the whole well hold them off save the princess heroes! All in all, i don't think badly of people using the exploit frankly its part of MMO culture to find inventive ways around problems leveling included. I just think we could benefit more from more rewarding and interesting fate designs in general than relying on a small aspect of a few.

[cainejw]

Hiding behind a 'devs dind't called it an exploit' excuse is a wacky form of legalistic exploitation as well, one that relies on the fact that SE seldom interacts directly.

Do you even know what legal semantics are? I would be arguing in the manner that celticprince argued. I would be providing you with a definition and picking apart, word for word, the contextual use of the term.

I am saying that only one group of people are allowed to decide what is or is not an exploit. That is the same group of people with expressed responsibility of developing this game and fixing those exploits. That would be the developers and associated staff.

CrimsonJenn seems to believe that she is an arbiter of gameplay. She gets to decide what is an exploit and she gets to decide how fast people should level. I'm saying that CrimsonJenn is nothing more than a player and should be taken as such--with no real power outside of a personal value and opinion.

[celticprince]

Did you design it? are you the writer responsible for the fate's story? mighty presumptuous to claim what the design is intended to be if you had nothing to do with it. it would be like someone other than me explaining the point of the missions I wrote for the MMORPG The Repopulation. The fact remains no one is capable of stopping you from completing it. All they can do is blacklist you and keep you from joining their party or free company and act like immature punks and call you names. The chain killing of mobs for the ludicrously high xp chains can be done anywhere with enough effort.

No the real problem here is bigots and idiots treating anyone not playing how they do like trash. Nothing SE can do will fix that and it has nothing to do with the fate itself. Just happens to be a popular event and when crowds form people butt heads.