We need an AH

[AlexiaKidd]

I just posted a thread in the Markets and Retainers section HERE. Basically it says this:

Ideas to help the Market Wards

1) - Keep the wards but expanded them to include buying straight from item search list but maybe add an extra 5% delivery tax to encourage you to actually go into the ward to pick the item up. This would also help remove a little bit of gill from the economy.

2) - Add filter options and a better layout for the item search lists. Filters for thing like rank, class and so on and then sort them in order high to low and so on.

3) - Also show +1, +2 +3 items in the search list and so on.

4) - Add price history please.

5) - Add an Item Seek Search so you can have look and see what items people are looking for and sell them if I have them. I also want my retainers to be able to Seek for items even if I currently don't have any of them. It seems silly that you can only seek items that you already have as most of the time you wouldn't be able seeking them if you had them. I believe the Item Seek List will be a big help to give the Wards a much needed boost.

6) - When you search for an item and venture into the wards maybe you could have a different coloured star above the person who is selling the item the cheapest.

7) - Maybe also link all the wards from the other cities. This could help ease congestion in Ul'dah's wards and maybe help stop them crashing so much.

8) - Allow retainers to be called at camps so we can drop off gear or grab something we have stored.

9) - Maybe you could have MW counters in the camps and hamlets, where you could buy items straight from the list but you would have to pay a 15% delivery tax on the item.

If you like those ideas then show your support, if you have some new ones let me know or if you don't like them at all then flame me to death ^^

*casts Barfira*

[Elexia]

I wasn't stating opinion though. An NPC-less model would be objectively better. There's some flaws that the current model introduces that cannot be solved at all, whereas any new features that this model also introduced can be replicated without the use of NPCs.

You are indeed stating an opinion. Some MMOs from the past and even now a lot of direct trade goes through bazaar &trade/"market centers", especially depending on which AH model was used therefore it's purely opinion on what is "better", since as proven some people like the MW and they continue to work on it/improve it.

[Chezen]

I wasn't stating opinion though. An NPC-less model would be objectively better. There's some flaws that the current model introduces that cannot be solved at all, whereas any new features that this model also introduced can be replicated without the use of NPCs.

Your initial statement sounded like an opinion to me, so my appologies. I actually never argued that an AH isn't more efficient. But efficient isn't always better. It's good to slow down and take time to enjoy things. Yes, that is complete opinion lol. But give me the quiet Wards over the AH any day. And my retainers, I like my retainers.

But the Wards are unstable, and it makes sense that more NPCs would only make it worse. If SE could fix that, I'd be happier, personally, than with an AH. Just have to wait and see.

[Wolfie]

You are indeed stating an opinion. Some MMOs from the past and even now a lot of direct trade goes through bazaar &trade/"market centers", especially depending on which AH model was used therefore it's purely opinion on what is "better", since as proven some people like the MW and they continue to work on it/improve it.

I don't think you quite understand what I mean by objectively better. Your points basically consist of "Other MMOs have bad market systems" and "some people like MW". Those are not things that make a system good.

NPC based wards have introduced the following problems:

Ward limits on retainers
Difficulty selling different kinds of items
Forced zoning when buying different kinds of items
Loss of access to 90 storage slots due to retainers being placed in a ward
Having to manage multiple retainers

These are all legitimate, measurable problems with an NPC model that would simply vanish the moment NPCs were taken out of the equation.

But there is no functionality that the NPC model has brought that can't be replicated in a system without NPCs. That's why it's objectively worse.

[Sovereign]

This game reminds me of a Star Trek quote:

"Square Enix... boldly going where many games have been for years..."

Err wait...

[Chezen]

I don't think you quite understand what I mean by objectively better. Your points basically consist of "Other MMOs have bad market systems" and "some people like MW". Those are not things that make a system good.

NPC based wards have introduced the following problems:

Ward limits on retainers
Difficulty selling different kinds of items
Forced zoning when buying different kinds of items
Loss of access to 90 storage slots due to retainers being placed in a ward
Having to manage multiple retainers

These are all legitimate, measurable problems with an NPC model that would simply vanish the moment NPCs were taken out of the equation.

But there is no functionality that the NPC model has brought that can't be replicated in a system without NPCs. That's why it's objectively worse.

"Whoever said the human race was logical."

Reducing rpg games to nothing more than efficiency, calculations, and numbers is to me what takes the fun out of the game. MW allow for a type of RP. Maybe they need some help, but they are still more interesting than an AH.

I also don't see the things you listed as problems. Crashing is a problem. Having separate wards so that 80% of the population camps in Uldah is a problem. The things you listed are gameplay.

Anyway, that's the extent of my comments on this. It's not worth a debate to me.

Edit: "Any likeness in thought between Star Trek references is purely coincidental"

[toshimoog]

Sorry if someone has already said this.

Why can't the auction house just work like it does in eBay and people bid until time runs out? Then we can still do retainers for people who want to buy right now instead of waiting for auction.

Why not have both, and just keep the auction house strictly for timed bidding?

[Wolfie]

"Whoever said the human race was logical."

Reducing rpg games to nothing more than efficiency, calculations, and numbers is to me what takes the fun out of the game. MW allow for a type of roleplay. Maybe they need some help, but they are still more interesting than an AH.

I also don't see the things you listed as problems. Crashing is a problem. Having separate wards so that 80% of the population camps in Uldah is a problem. The things you listed are gameplay.

Anyway, that's the extent of my comments on this. It's not worth a debate to me.

Edit: "Any likeness in thought between Star Trek references is purely coincidental"

Your entire argument boils down to "I think it's fun" and "I don't think X is a problem". There is not a single thing that NPC's do that's unique, and a pretty hefty list of problems (the crashing is caused in part by the fact that they're NPCs and are in multiple, separate zones).

We're talking about literal loss of functionality, hindrance in gameplay, and a system that is objectively more difficult to use and develop. You really think that it's still superior to a system that's not based on "NPCs selling your items in separate zones"?

[Kaedan]

We're talking about literal loss of functionality, hindrance in gameplay, and a system that is objectively more difficult to use and develop. You really think that it's still superior to a system that's not based on "NPCs selling your items in separate zones"?

Before you even begin to try and make the statement that an AH is "objectively better", you have to define the parameters of the AH you are talking about... which you have failed to do.

Second, even if one or two aspects of an AH are objectively better, that doesn't mean the AH as a whole is objectively better.

Finally, you cannot prove that an aspect of the AH is objectively better. People like different things. Some people may like running to an NPC to pick up their item. That makes the point subjective. You are trying to make the claim that getting an item instantly or getting an item from your mailbox is "better for everyone" (a restatement of 'objectively better')... which is impossible to prove.

[Chezen]

Your entire argument boils down to "I think it's fun" and "I don't think X is a problem". There is not a single thing that NPC's do that's unique, and a pretty hefty list of problems (the crashing is caused in part by the fact that they're NPCs and are in multiple, separate zones).

We're talking about literal loss of functionality, hindrance in gameplay, and a system that is objectively more difficult to use and develop. You really think that it's still superior to a system that's not based on "NPCs selling your items in separate zones"?

Ok. One last comment. The only thing I am stating (not arguing) that market wards are superior in, is enjoyment. That is subjective, not objective.