Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[Kitru]

This brings us back to they are both situational, I'm still sure more content will be released that will allow the WAR to shine.

The math is pretty simple actually. 20% damage reduction is the equivalent of 25% increased max hp and 25% increased self healing (1/.8 = 1.25; reduced damage means that a smaller hp pool is effectively larger against the same amount of incoming damage as well as having the same amount of healing act upon an effectively larger amount of incoming damage). WARs have 25% +hp but only 15% +healing, which is where the 8% discrepancy comes from (1.15 / 1.25 = .92).

For there to be content for WAR to really shine in, it would need to be content where healers are either incapable of healing the tank for extended periods or rapid fire burst phases (i.e. burst hit once every 15-20 seconds), such that either the self heals or the quick CDs of the WAR are actually valuable. It's a delicate balance to play around with. Honestly, I think it would just be better to take care of that 8% discrepancy and have the player make the entire difference, rather than having to create explicit situations just for WARs to shine.

[Lharz]

Guys, what I meant was that I just hope that if some balances are needed, SE will be smarter than Blizzard and won't destroy the spirit of the classes by making them similar.

[Duelle]

Guys, what I meant was that I just hope that if some balances are needed, SE will be smarter than Blizzard and won't destroy the spirit of the classes by making them similar.

And as I've said, that can only be taken so far. I don't think WAR should get carbon copies of anything PLD has (at most, Improved Foresight should be buffed for MRD/WAR besides the defrease in recast). I do however feel that WAR needs a slight boost to their mitigation game. Self-heals should still be part of their gameplay model, but it stands to reason that a tank should have mitigation on some level.

You could clone Blood Shield (as I mentioned earlier, rename it Dulled Nerves and make it proc from Inner Beast), buff Foresight only for MRD (change Improved Foresight to reduce the cooldown to 90 seconds and change "+20% defense" to "reduces damage taken by 15%"). If you don't want to clone Blood Shield directly, make the mitigation come from higher parry chance with a 20-25% mitigation ceiling; Foresight used to increase parry rates back in 1.0, and that concept might be worth recycling for 2.0's MRD/WAR.

[Ondesvin]

they should make the 15% healing as default on our defaince and not someting we can lose and make it work on all the healing we can get even our own buffs, or increase it to 25% only works on cure, as it is now we got a problem, what does a higher health pool give you if you cant get back to max hp after hit?

but then again i think healers should learn that they can spam heal on us at there hearth content and not worry abourt threat being pulled of the warrior tank, we are after all not paladin noobs with low threat.

[Evandis]

they should make the 15% healing as default on our defaince and not someting we can lose and make it work on all the healing we can get even our own buffs, or increase it to 25% only works on cure, as it is now we got a problem, what does a higher health pool give you if you cant get back to max hp after hit?

but then again i think healers should learn that they can spam heal on us at there hearth content and not worry abourt threat being pulled of the warrior tank, we are after all not paladin noobs with low threat.

Anyway, once again, give a shadow style ability, or an enhanced parry ability, step up some evasion. However, a defense boost is not the way to resolve anything. Warriors in XI were designed as tanks and much more squishy than a Paladin as well.

If you want to be super sturdy, than play PLD, but having two defensive spec tanks is retarded. If they go that route, give us PLDs a great sword and more DD abilities so we can all be as vanilla as the next guy.