Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[Junk4Brains]

Sorry had to point this out, your math is way off here... 600 every 3 seconds = 12000 damage a minute not 2400.

Haha no need to apologize that was WAY off. Man, typed half that up during lunch so was in a rush. But the second half pretty much still stands for itself. When you compare PLD's mitigation to WAR's, PLD blows WAR out of the water no arguing that. But when you compare a WAR's Health recover to a PLD's, WAR blows PLD out of the water.War can use 3 IB's a minute. Unbuffed that heals in the 600-800 range. That is 1800-2400 recovery a minute. Add in natural regen bonus that adds to 2200-2800 recovery and minute.
You add in the 20% from Maim and 11% from Storm's Eye that is 2882-3668hp a minute. And War hasn't used ANY of their cooldowns. Which they can both use to increase their damage/self healing or do some mitigation of their own. So my point still stands. The only thing PLD really has over WAR is Hallowed Ground which is situational.

[Derza]

It would be nice if they just made the 15% increased healing received part of the defiance buff and not something gained from wrath stacks i think this would make things a bit more balanced for warriors as dungeons get harder (so they won't have that 10-15 secs after using inner beast where they are harder to keep up) other than that I think they are pretty well balanced with much different play styles.

[Coramac]

Isn't shield Oath 20% not 25%?

It is 20% damage reduction which translates to 25% more effective HP. 50% reduction is 100% more effective HP. You take baseline and divide it by resulting damage (1/.8).

Well yea... its inner beast, second wind, Thrill of battle, and Storm's path [snip for chars]

I thought it was 20 vs. 30 and War does more damage. Regardless, it's a non-issue. While the other abilities do factor in, there are some drawbacks. Inner Beast reduces your incoming healing substantially for a non-trivial amount of time. It does give some flexibility that's very nice. On cooldowns, Paladins have some that Warriors don't get. On the regeneration issue, the damage reduction increases the effectiveness of all healing including regeneration.

Something important that I haven't seen anywhere is do Warriors have higher base HP or better Vit gains outside of Defiance?

[allluckys]

Tank dps is relevant especially in tank and spank dps race situations. It goes like this staying alive > holding hate > dps

[Carnifex]

Neither Defiance nor Inner Beast reduces incoming healing for the WAR. Defiance INCREASES heals received by 3% per Wrath (max 15%).

[Suffur]

Honestly if you playing a tank and even mentioning DPS you have the wrong idea and are playing the wrong class.

I dont know if this was your point, but thats correct. Saying that warriors do more damage should not compensate for the fact that their ability to tank is worse than PLD

[Kal-El]

Ok I haven't touched End Game content yet but I honestly think PLD and WAR are on par. You've just got to play it right. Just did Garuda (in story line) and with the first group we had a WHM that automatically said "I can't heal this tank. He's a WAR". He was the idiot that couldn't run behind the rocks fast enough. He rage quitted and I got into another group. I timed Inner Beast right after a damage spike and alternated Second Wind with Thrill of Battle regularly while keeping bloodbath up as much as I could.

I also did Storms Path rotation when I had good enmity and when bloodbath was down. Couple mega-pots and bingo!

It's harder to play WAR. You're gonna get people hating on you but that's because some people struggle with it.

It's the player. Not the job.

[Kaalan]

WAR isn't about mitigation, it's about getting those HP back. In a sens, if you know what you're doing, it's much more effective, since you can answer to a specific situation, whereas a PLD who don't use a CD for a special hit or something, has accomplished nothing.

I do agree that moving the incoming heals buff from wrath to defiance would be nice, or not consuming wrath when using IB and such, but beside that, I'm really happy with WAR, people complaining are much likely people who wanted to be some axe wielding paladin. Well too bad.

[hola]

make inner beast function the same as blood DK‘s deathstrike in WOW. drain 300%dmg and also shield you for the same amount.

and also make the +healing and +crit a Permanent buff instead of stacked buff while defiance is on.

and last farsight needs to be a 20%dmg reduction buff instead of 20% defense increase.

[hola]

WAR isn't about mitigation, it's about getting those HP back. In a sens, if you know what you're doing, it's much more effective, since you can answer to a specific situation, whereas a PLD who don't use a CD for a special hit or something, has accomplished nothing.

I do agree that moving the incoming heals buff from wrath to defiance would be nice, or not consuming wrath when using IB and such, but beside that, I'm really happy with WAR, people complaining are much likely people who wanted to be some axe wielding paladin. Well too bad.

usually people talking like this dont know what they are talking about.